Biden and Palin on Gay Rights

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 10:50am

Lost in the shuffle was the historic exchange on gay rights. Palin's supporters among Religious Conservatives are NOT happy with her answer:

===

"Do you support, as they do in Alaska, granting same-sex benefits to couples?"

Biden was first up, and did not hesitate in his response. The relevant nugget:

"[I]n an Obama-Biden administration, there will be absolutely no distinction from a constitutional standpoint or a legal standpoint between a same-sex and a heterosexual couple...We do support making sure that committed couples in a same-sex marriage are guaranteed the same constitutional benefits as it relates to their property rights, their rights of visitation, their rights to insurance, their rights of ownership as heterosexual couples do."

He went on to state that the Obama/Biden ticket's position is that marriage is between a man and a woman.

"Barack Obama nor I support redefining from a civil side what constitutes marriage. We do not support that. That is basically the decision to be able to be able to be left to faiths and people who practice their faiths the determination what you call it."

This left Palin precious little wiggle room to differentiate herself other than to say she's personally not a bigot.

"But I also want to clarify, if there's any kind of suggestion at all from my answer that I would be anything but tolerant of adults in America choosing their partners, choosing relationships that they deem best for themselves, you know, I am tolerant and I have a very diverse family and group of friends and even within that group you would see some who may not agree with me on this issue, some very dear friends who don't agree with me on this issue.

"But in that tolerance also, no one would ever propose, not in a McCain-Palin administration, to do anything to prohibit, say, visitations in a hospital or contracts being signed, negotiated between parties."
Pam's House Blend: Biden, Palin and that pesky marriage thing

[best12bars]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 10:54am

I guess this is a good thing, but I found both of their answers depressing.

Baby steps, though, right?

[xxnewgirlxx]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:09am

Yeah, what a crappy thing for them to agree on. I'm hoping Biden and Obama see the error in their ways. At least Biden can admit he's changed his views over the years.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:13am

How comforting to know that she wouldn't keep the lover of a dying man or woman out of a hospital room. Talk about minimal standards of humanity. Again, I see the wolf killer in everythig she says, not the mother. And she even holds the baby like the prop that it is (at least in these venues).

[Melicus]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:17am

Thank you for posting this article, PalJoey. I've been wondering if others felt the same way I did about how Gwen Ifill handled the exchange. This quote from the article sums up my disappointment.

"On the other hand, her answer is clearly misleading in terms of the general audience not well-versed of these issues, and sadly, moderator Gwen Ifill did a poor job of following up. The obvious question is whether, in a McCain/Palin administration, they would support civil unions as an alternative to marriage equality, since Joe Biden slyly asserted that they hold the same overall position."

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:21am

Don't believe a word of it. She'd legislate against visitation rights or any official recognition of same-sex relationships in a heartbeat. She's as tolerant as the Klan.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:30am

You know what? I was elated. Why?

Because BOTH presented this as a non-issue. If that's not progress I don't know what is. Both said loudly in very plain words that are clear and concise that gays are equal. It has been a bottom up (excuse the pun) struggle for this but here it is. Here it is.

Finally we have a consensus on something.

The biggest problem in the last decade has not been gay marriage or Don't-ask-don't-tell, the problem has been acceptance. Voting for or against gay marriage doesn’t a tolerant society make. The hard part was getting people to acknowledge we are real and tangible.

I think we can all take a deep breath.

I know McCain will continue the SAME Bush policy of do-nothing for gays and Obama/Biden will make inroads for something that is EQUAL to "marriage". Democrats have learned the hard way we can't call it "marriage" but are finally adamant about adhering to the 14th Amendment’s Equal Protection Clause.

Elated!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:37am

I encourage you all to bookmark Pam's House Blend. It's a great blog for LGBT and progressive news and commentary.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:54am

It is a pathetic thing to agree on. Obama and Biden standing up and supporting Separate But Equal. Charming.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 11:58am

I remember a Republican Convention not so long ago where Patrick Buchanan and pat Robertson declared a Cultural War against homosexuals.

That was really charming.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 12:04pm

Abolish civil marriage. That's the REAL solution.

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 12:17pm

It's a shame Gwen didn't ask about Don't Ask Don't Tell.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 12:23pm

Pal, wasn't that the Buchanan speech that Molly Ivins said sounded better in the original German?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 12:39pm

Ya...

I MISS Molly Ivins!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 1:15pm

I was shocked by Palin's answer. The right must be livid!

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 1:16pm

Yeah, it was a small thrill to be begrudgingly acknowledged as human.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 1:21pm

Meh. In the Bush/Kerry debates, Bush posited that he supported equal rights for same-sex unions (though not gay "marriage") and well, we all know what he did about that.

[uncageg]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 1:48pm

I wanted Biden to retalliate by saying "Obama and I don't "Tolerate" gay rights, we believe in them". He did say they believe in them but I wanted him to make it clear that to tolerate something does not mean you believe in it.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 2:29pm

Biden didn't say it because he doesn't believe it. If he believed in equal rights for gays he would endorse gay marriage, plain and simple. In his answer last night he denigrated each and every gay man and woman by saying that he doesn't believe that same-sex couples deserve the right to marry.

This is not an act of tolerance or acceptance or support. It is an act of flat-out barefaced BIGOTRY, and to pretend otherwise is simply delusional.

[Q]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 2:55pm

"Abolish civil marriage. That's the REAL solution."

Amen.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 2:59pm

Abolish divorce. That'd divide the folks who really believe in the sanctity of marriage from the bogus posers.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 3:01pm

Maybe I'm old and lived through too many Culture Wars, but I vastly prefer Biden's goal-oriented, winning "bigoted" answer--one that clearly states I am constitutionally entitled to property rights, rights of visitation, rights to insurance and rights of ownership--over an impotent call for federal gay marriage legislation that will succeed only in making us a WEDGE ISSUE yet again.

I don't know about you kids, but I've had enough wedgies for my lifetime--and yours.

[Pippin]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 3:05pm

I'm with roscoe.


seriously.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 3:08pm

I've had enough with kowtowing to semantics because the people who worship Hateful Jesus go apoplectic if you use the words gay and marriage next to one another.

And I'm with everyone on the divorce thing. The santicity of marriage could only be served if people weren't allowed to so easily get divorced.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/3/08 at 3:13pm

Biden's little statement was fine as far as it went, and it went very far, don't get me wrong. It is as good as we're going to get for now.

But I just don't see the sense in pretending that these guys give a damn about real equality until they drop the "separate but equal" nonsense. We're going to be at the back of that particular bus for a very very very long time.