Braced for a Higher Tax Bill, Some May Dodge the Bullet

[Craig]

Posted: 3/4/09 at 8:45am

http://finance.yahoo.com/taxes/article/106679/Braced-for-a-Higher-Tax-Bill-Some-May-Dodge-the-Bullet;_ylt=Aucc8x5TVY8J6GuXX6R.cEe7YWsA

[Gothampc]

Posted: 3/4/09 at 10:57am

Here's the part that proves the author is clueless.

"In any event, none of this would start until 2011, which gives the economy a chance to recover and taxpayers time to estimate the impact on themselves."

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/4/09 at 6:20pm

Let it recover so we can put it right back in the crapper again.

The smart ones will use loopholes. The money Obama wants from them will than have to be paid by someone else. Presto chango if you make $ 200,000 you are rich & I Obama will soak you.

It is a beautiful thing .

If anyone actually believes this load, I have a bridge I would like to sell you.

Updated On: 3/4/09 at 06:20 PM

[SNAFU]

Posted: 3/5/09 at 3:49pm

Roxy, please share with us your way out of this mess the economy is in. It is easy to sit back and complain, let's hear some ideas!

[Gothampc]

Posted: 3/5/09 at 4:00pm

"It is easy to sit back and complain, let's hear some ideas!"

Six months of no tax collection. Putting money into people's hands will boost the economy.

[Craig]

Posted: 3/5/09 at 4:03pm

really? that's your idea?

That's like putting a bandaid on a sucking chest wound.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 3/6/09 at 6:21pm

Not giving money to study cow flatulence & calling it stimulus would be a start. Maybe it might be stimulating for the cow but that is about it.

Try not offering up massive new social programs which will not do anything for the economy & will balloon the deficit.

How about giving the money directly to the people? Sell AIG bit by bit over time as it is a big black hole that devours money. Start investigating & prosecuting those in the financial sector who brought this on.

Having a cohesive policy about it all might help. Tell the big 3 automakers the well is dry. If they have to go bankrupt and or merge into 2 so be it. In this economy, trying to sell a car is next near to impossible no matter how good it is.

Neither healthcare or green gases or anything else matters now. Only the economy matters so work on that. Many people who voted for him will be quickly disenchanted with him if he does not produce results. His remarks about the stock market the other day shows he has no grasp of the situation. While I wish him well, I feel he in in way over his head. Giving a job of President to someone with virtually no political experience is akin to asking an auto mechanic to preform brain surgery

[SNAFU]

Posted: 3/6/09 at 8:15pm

Roxy, seriously, what did you want him to say about the stock market? That it is FUBAR and there is no hope? What would THAT have done to it?!? It is a leader's duty to keep a cool head and remain positive.
Giving the money to the people won't necessarily help much either. Look what Bush's "if you love me I will send you $300" did to the economy..... nothing, it continued on it's course. People , for the most part either squirreled it away or paid a utility bill or two, there wasn't a mad rush to consume.
If you let the auto companies go under what does THAT do for the economy? The unemployment numbers would sky rocket and it will not only hurt the automakers but destroy all of the other businesses they keep afloat.
Healthcare is very much a part of the overall economy too. It is all interconnected. you cannot focus on just one aspect and expect everything else to fall in line. Each aspect has to be looked into and aided as best it can.
We entrusted the job of President to a fratboy with a substance abuse problem and look where it got us.
ANYTHING and I mean ANYTHING that is done to fix the economy will NOT happen over night. The stimulus package will hopefully raise the bottom some so things can stabilize and then we can rebuild from there. If you thought that once the checks were written and sent out it was going to be all rainbows and unicorns you are deluded!

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 3/6/09 at 10:26pm

"Sell AIG bit by bit over time as it is a big black hole that devours money."

Wow...with a pitch like that, who wouldn't want to buy it?

[Q]

Posted: 3/7/09 at 2:40am

"Sell . . . a big black hole that devours money."

"Wow...with a pitch like that, who wouldn't want to buy it?"

Well, it works on Santa Monica Boulevard - and many other streets in this country.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 3/7/09 at 9:27am

Updated On: 3/7/09 at 09:27 AM

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 3/7/09 at 9:29am

"Well, it works on Santa Monica Boulevard - and many other streets in this country."

Then I guess...AIG best start walking the streets, I can't wait to see if Hugh Grant, or Eddie Murphy put in a offer.

[nearthestage]

Posted: 3/7/09 at 10:14am

Under President Obama's plan no one will be spared a tax increase. He's pushing a Robin Hood and his gang of merry men mentality. As much as people don't want to hear it, supporting businesses large and small is what will take us out of this recession/depression, depending on your part of the country. It's people with money that make it possible for those with less to make a living. The problem is we're dealing with politicians and not business people. What the president is doing is putting a not-so-old-face on the same old image. It's like putting a fresh coat of paint on a wall without cleaning the dust off before you begin. The dust globs up the bristles of the brush and eventually makes for an uneven finish instead a smooth, clean result.
Without social and fisical reform; reformulation of the Federal/State tax tables; and incentives to business large and small, you're looking at the Dow sinking to 5000 or below in the next 6 months with double digit unemployment and inflation.

As for some suggestions; let's start with business.

Currently, small business is defined by the U.S Labor Dept as 1 to 25 employees. Nonsense! Lower the standard for small business to owner operated 1 to 15 employees; sub-mid business, again, owner operated with 16 to 40, middle scale 41 to 85, big business between 86 and 150, anything above 150 Corporate.

Give to business owners across the board tax incentives; not tax cuts (aka loopholes) for the amount of people hired within their own local, providing basic health care, educational advancement opportunity, establishing community outreach, etc; and to employees across the board tax cuts based on annual income of minimum wage plus 10-17%. Minimum wage earners will pay no Federal tax, they would pay state - gotta support the house guys.

Health care example, if I offer my employees health care with me paying 50% and they paying 50%, the share that is paid to me by them is considered - under the current structure to be income and I'm taxed both by state and federal accordingly. If I pay the entire monthly premium, it's lumped into business expenses and is deductable. However, it moves my business onto a higher level on the tax table and I'm taxed anyway. Consequently, there's no incentive for me to provide health insurance to employees.
Offer me incentive; if I cover health insurance for employees making minimum wage plus 10-17% (about $8.00-$8.50 per hour in NY), I can take a 20% deduction on line 800,000B on my long form. Now we have an employee making a minimum of $320.00 a week, who's not worrying about health care for themselves and their family and I have not only the benefit of the deduction(based on incentive), but of a healtier, happier employee. Awesome.

I have other ideas, but this is runnung really long. So I'll crawl down from my soapbox and get back to work.

[javero]

Posted: 3/7/09 at 2:50pm

nearthestage--I agree with every point you articulated but the tax increases are inevitable due to the malpractices of the major banks, mortgage lenders, investment banks and securities traders plus legacy health care benefits/pension liabilities of the big corporations and state/local governments.

A poster named yawper will weigh in shortly I'm sure about legacy entitlements such as health care for former employees of the Big 3 automakers. As I understand it, the average retirement age of a Big 3 employee is 50, at least a decade before they'd be eligible for Medicare which is nearly insolvent but I'll get to that in a minute. We can't blame the Big 3 NOW for trying to provide their retirees with health care when the federal government encouraged it in times past.

I do have some issues with the UAW and organized labor in general but that's an aside. It's the legacy entitlement debt that's taking the Big 3 under and arguably the UAW.

We are just an entitlement society. As a Libertarian I oppose all taxes because they're stupid but accept the fact that ours is not a true laissez-faire market based economy. Countless industries are regulated to the hilt at the federal, state and in some cases local government level. And both taxpayers and corporations insist that the federal government provide some form of safety net to catch them when they slip.

For months now I'm been on warning about the private pension funds of Fortune 500 firms that are teetering on the brink of insolvency. Those corporate pension liabilities will be the basis for the next round of corporate welfare. When you tally up the pension liabilities of the Fortune 500, they rank right up there after Social Security and Medicare. And most of those pension plans are replete with toxic mortgage backed securities.

IMO what makes Obama's gasp...increased taxes necessary are four key things: (1) the Iraq Stimulus Package crafted by his predecessor, (2) the impending collapse of both Social Security and Medicare as scores of baby boomers enter retirement, and (3) the impending wholesale transfer of private pension liabilities onto taxpayers as a huge chunk of the Fortune 500 moves into bankruptcy and (4) the need for a war chest, oops, bribes to smooth Pakistani-Afghan-Taliban relations.

Taxpayers simply can't rescue millions of homeowners under water, prop up the Fortune 500, keep lights on in the major urban centers, subsidize farmers, insure student loans, sponsor research at major universities, send aid to Israel to expedite (or delay) Armageddon depending on your perspective, and fund multiple wars without ponying up a bit more. Neither party has shown any willingness to trim spending related to its pet projects so Obama must return tax rates to their Reagan-era level.

I personally would like to see a flat federal tax to spread the love but given the current political climate, it's only a pipe dream. Though I supported him, what's troubling me about Obama now is his unwillingness to admit that he'll raise taxes again should he be re-elected. He has no choice.

[nearthestage]

Posted: 3/8/09 at 9:23am

Agreed javero, I don't disagree that banks/mortgage lenders and the like were greedy in their practices. But, what we need to remember is the reason corporations and organizations jumped on the band-wagon. They are in the business of making money. Corporate heads saw Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac profiting off of people's visions of a better life and fulfillment of the American Dream, which is to own a home. It was all done in full view of our government and with their blessing. I'm not saying it's right, nor do I agree. However, I broach this question; if someone was shaking a money tree, wouldn't you go stand under it? There's plenty of blame to go around, but greed by the government; who initiated the fair lending proclaimation, by the lenders; who saw huge profits in taking advantage of their fellow Americans, and to those who accepted a loan they had to know would be dificult to pay back.

The mortgage crisis is a shame, but needs to be allowed to play out. If you bought a home you knew you couldn't afford, so be it. Pay the piper. Learn and move on. People have been doing it for years. In past years, if a person/family lost their home for example, because there was an illness that stole the family savings or a death of the household bread-winner, no-one helped those people. No-one cared. It's life. And it was shameful. People didn't announce it. Geez, today they line up waiting for the handout and broadcasting their irresponsibility. No shame. No pride.

I have no qualms with businesses; large or small providing health care - it's a neccesity. Everyone has or should have the right to basic medical care. Medicare needs more attention - in general Social Security needs to be dealth with for the good of everyone. We as a nation should be ashamed of the way we treat our elderly. In third world countries they're put on a pedestial as wise and honored. Here, in the greatest country in the world, they're sent a check to live on every month that has not only failed to keep up with today's costs, but doesn't even amount to a monthly minimum wage check. To add insult to injury - they have to listen to younger people gripe because Social Security won't be there when they retire. Sad.

We need to get over the idea that someone, whether it be our employers or the government owe us a living. A living is what you earn, a life is what you make. And both are controlled (or should be) by the individual. Responsibility. It's not a bad word and deserves more respect


Entitlement society. Now those are bad words. Every working American should feel a tightness in their stomaches when they hear those words. I haven't a thing against someone who needs help and indeed I am very involved in community awareness and charities in my area. It gives me that grinchy thing in my chest where his heart grows x4, it's awesome to lend a hand. But it's also discouraging to support people who have no ambition and no desire nor incentive to find ambition. Part of me feels sorry for them because I think they've been robbed of the joy of accomplishment; the other side of me is angry as hell because it's not up to me to support their chosen lifestyle. Mind boggling.

I'm in favor of a flat tax as well. If everyone pays say 25% of their annual salary over minimum wage plus 10-17%, it works out to perfection. But like you say javero, it makes too much sense. Hence, it's an idea dead in the water. It's better we should find out how to deal with pig stink or study whether or not frogs - the common tree frog specifically - are bi-sexual.

[javero]

Posted: 3/8/09 at 6:48pm

"The mortgage crisis is a shame, but needs to be allowed to play out."

I concede you that point with a knot in my stomach. It's a hard line to take. The only reason why I'm in support of Obama's wish to assist homeowners in distress is due to the mammoth number of homes under water, diminishing county property tax receipts, state budget shortfalls nationwide and that fact that many banks with foreclosed properties haven't even listed them yet at the request of local government officials nationwide (they don't want their local property tax base to plummet).

Talk about six degrees of separation.

btw, Obama is clearly running for re-election.

I wish his administration would strip the pork from the FY09 budget proposal drawn up by the previous Congress, w/ Bush's blessing, that he's about to sign into law just to keep the federal government going. Most of the feds are still operating under another continuing resolution which expires in two business days.

Even the MSM now wants Obama to do an about face from the FY09 budget proposal he inherited because they're still rooting for him.

Some conservatives wish that Obama would shut the gov't down until the FY09 budget is properly cleansed but we know what happened when Clinton went that route. Just explain to the AARP why social security payments don't post to the bank accounts of seniors and other recipients on time because the feds were out of work.

PS: CNN is reporting that 1/3 of those impacted by the housing meltdown are "renters" who face certain eviction when rental properties go into foreclosure. Of course, Don Lemon of CNN would cover the story of one affected renter (a single mom) who was forced to move into a homeless shelter for a stretch apart from her children. Hey, I gotta heart.
Cantor vs Orszag re:FY09 earmarks on CNN

Updated On: 3/8/09 at 06:48 PM

[nearthestage]

Posted: 3/8/09 at 10:46pm

Your points are well taken javero.

I've been saying saying for a month that President Obama is campigning for 2012. What he does exceptionally well, is just that - campaign, and he's riding his popularity train as much and as far as he can. Chasing photo ops, spouting doom, and kissing babies. Jesus, he makes Charles Shumer [spl] look camera shy. In the meantime, Pelosi, Reed and the rest are porking up everywhere they can. It's not exclusive to either party, it's both sides. IMO it's becoming painfully obvious that the President hasn't a clue what he's doing; although he does seem to be enjoying Air Force One immensely, which by the way, he's flying around in on our nickel. He's getting a two year jump on the 2012 election and we are paying for the campaign. Clever.

There are exceptions in the foreclosure laws for renters javero - here are some exceptions to an otherwise grim scenario.

Tenants who participate in the federally financed Section 8 program will see their leases survive, as will tenants in New Jersey, New Hampshire, the District of Columbia, and Massachusetts. In these states, new owners cannot evict lease-holding tenants unless the tenants have failed to pay the rent or violated any other important lease term or law. Tenants in other states, who live in cities with rent control are also so protected under “just cause” eviction protection. So there's hope. I haven't seen any of the news networks cover the fact that some renters can and will be spared eviction. No indeed, that would be a good story and we know the news media can't be covering such things.

No one who wants to be with their children should ever be separated from them. However, if it's better for the children, then so be it. A shelter is no place for children. I didn't see the story on CNN to which refer, but I hope things have worked out for this lady. I hope sincerely that tonight finds her sleeping soundly with her children and not lonely among strangers. Yeah javero - I got a heart too. :)