Joan of Arc - where you stand
Joan of Arc - where you stand
#0Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 9:59pm
I know this is very random but I just finished yet another book about Joan of Arc and it got me thinking... I mean I don't believe in God so I can't really say that I believe she was approached in her dreams and then won the battles for France. But how can a 12 year old girl in the span of 4 years win all those major battles? And everyone believe her because of her dream? No proof or anything?
What do you all think?
#1re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:04pmFaith is not about proof.
#2re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:06pm
"For those who do not believe, no explanation is possible.
For those who do believe, no explanation is necessary."
#3re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:12pm
Yeah, I suppose that's true. But it seems so strange to let a 12 year old girl from the country with no experience run around in a war..much less lead one. But she did it...
I like that quote Glebb...and it's true..I don't think anyone can explain anything to me.
#4re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:43pm
I thought this was about the T.V. show.
But I'll comment anyway. I think in times of war, especially then, people were desperate. Joan proved to them that she could do it, and they let her. I think it's a great story, one that would be a terrific show.
But I've never really enjoyed any of the movies.
And Glebb, great quote!
#5re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:45pm
Thanks and I wish I could take credit for it.
Give thanks to Hollywood.
Dollypop
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#6re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 10:48pm
That quote was used at the beginning of the film THE SONG OF BERNADETTE--the story of another 12 year old French girl and her visions.
#7re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/20/06 at 11:00pm
I stand with the final words uttered by Shaw's Saint Joan before her death:
"O God that madest this beautiful earth, when will it be ready to receive Thy saints? How long, O Lord, how long?"
(Although I must confess I first associated that final question with Stephen Sondheim and "You Could Drive a Person Crazy," not Bernard Shaw or Saint Joan.)
nomdeplume
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
#8re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 12:27am
Great quote, Glebb.
Well, you've just hit someone who has studied Joan of Arc in some depth, even been to the Church at Reims, France where the Dauphin was crowned, thanks to Jeanne D'Arc.
She is one of my favorite historical and religious figures. I love Shaw's play St. Joan and its fine arguments in triangle between Joan as mystic, the nobility and the clergy.
Moving beyond Glebb's quote into matters spiritual, and I suppose only to be of interest to believers, the nature of Jeanne D'Arc's mysticism or kind of supranormal or psychic perception is that though she was a simple uneducated country girl she was a clairaudient who "heard" the voice of at least one saint guiding her and telling her what to do. This is how she was able to accomplish victory in battles, fearless and noble that she also was.
It was commented of her by the men she led and who fought for her that her presence did not cause them to think of her in any sexual way as they might other women, there was something devoted and holy about her. When some men tried to rape her to discredit and violate her when she was held in prison before she was murdered at the stake for supposed heresy, the men did not succeed; she fought them and kept her honor.
The English soldiers in the crowd who had to burn her at the stake as a heretic and watched the way she died, reaching for a cross handed to her and holy martyr to the last, were devastated by it; many of these "enemy" soldiers also believed that they had killed a saint.
She taught France to think of itself as a country, whereas before it had been a bunch of little Dukedoms and Princedoms. That is what she is most remembered for, she represents the symbol of France.
Updated On: 6/21/06 at 12:27 AM
nomdeplume
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
brdlwyr
Broadway Legend Joined: 1/14/05
#11re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 12:50amCould be? Sally knew someone who died, yet she never provided info re: the memorial!
nomdeplume
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
#13re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 12:58am
Ohhh...this is THAT Sally! But Sally or Nom...?
So many sock puppets, so little time....
#14re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 1:07am
SallyBrown, Joan was actually 17 and 18 when she led the battles and only 19 when she was burned at the stake. However, she did start hearing the "voices" at around 13.
TIDBIT: Do you know that one of the saints that Joan claimed to have heard (I believe it was St. Catherine) was discredited by the Catholic Church because there is no proof that she ever existed? So what does that say about Joan and her voices?
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
nomdeplume
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
#15re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 1:12amIt says more about problems within the Catholic Church.
#16re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 1:43amnomdeplume, I was suggesting that Joan probably made it up or was suffering from a mental disorder.
Vita, dulcedo, et spes nostra
Salve, Salve Regina
Ad te clamamus exsules filii Eva
Ad te suspiramus, gementes et flentes
O clemens O pia
nomdeplume
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/20/05
#17re: Joan of Arc - where you stand
Posted: 6/21/06 at 1:48am
I am saying the Catholic Church erred as it is run by men, who err. It is unable to control or to certify saints who are created by God, not the Catholic Church, though they are sometimes acknowledged by it.
"There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy." W.S.
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