Obama -- Medical Marijana GOOD -- Gays BAD

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:07pm

So Obama's Justic Department won't be prosecuting cases of medical marijuana use that go against federal law, but it will still defend DOMA in court, because you know, well, it's the law, you know?
Dan Savage Here----

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:14pm

That is apples and oranges.

The real issue would be the Federal government invalidate same-sex marriages in those states where it is legal. One deals with a 10th amendment issue of what states, and the other is a federal statute.

And, if you read the second brief (not the first, which was a disaster), you would realize that the Obama administration was reluctantly defending DOMA, and indicated that they believed it was unconstitutional and should be repealed:

"In a filing by the Justice Department, administration lawyers made it clear for the first time in court that the president thinks the 13-year-old Defense of Marriage Act, which denies benefits to domestic partners of federal employees and allows states to reject same-sex marriages performed in other states, discriminates against gays and should be repealed.

...

Under decades of bipartisan tradition, the Justice Department is obliged to defend statutes passed by Congress, regardless of the political imperatives of the president. But gay activists registered their pique after government lawyers filed a brief in June that included language that appeared to equate same-sex marriage with incest and pedophilia. In another passage, the lawyers wrote that heterosexual marriage is "the traditional and universally recognized form."

Neither argument appears in a follow-up brief the Justice Department filed Monday. Senior trial counsel W. Scott Simpson embraced findings by researchers and prominent medical groups, including the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Psychological Association and the American Medical Association, in saying "that children raised by gay and lesbian parents are as likely to be well-adjusted as children raised by heterosexual parents."

And, in an unusual turn, Obama issued a statement Monday affirming that he would continue to seek repeal of the law, which has been upheld by federal judges in Florida and Washington state. The president said that he would "examine and implement measures that will help extend rights and benefits to (lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender) couples under existing law."



Obama Says Marriage Law Should Be Repealed

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:17pm

It may be apples and oranges to you, but it's one big fruit salad to a lot of gay people.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:18pm

There was nothing reluctant about that brief Obama's DOJ filed, and there is nothing reluctant about their ongoing defense of DOMA. If they were really "relucant" they would discontinue the practice altogether.

[tazber]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:23pm

Dude, that is so radical. Hand me the cheetos, will ya?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:23pm

PJ - I understand that. And that technical legal arguments do not address the visceral anger and pain that DOMA and DODT cause. I fundamentally disagree with both, and want them repealed yesterday.

But unfortunately, the technical legal arguments are going to be what works to reverse both. For DOMA, it is going to take the Supreme Court or new legislation. For DADT, while an Executive Order could do it in the short term, it is not a long term solution.

And, Roscoe, God help us all if the Justice Department gets to pick and choose which laws it will uphold and enforce. If you thought it was politicized under Bush, a pattern of practice which condones not enforcing laws on the books because you don't believe them, could have a very chilling effect on many rights that have been legislated.

I promise you. If he does not get DADT overturn by the end of his first term, he will not get my vote in 2012. If the Supreme Court upholds DOMA, then the pressure needs to be on both the Executive and the Legislative Branch to repeal it.
Updated On: 10/19/09 at 04:23 PM

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:24pm

Damn, we're out of cheetos. you want to run to the corner for some chips?

[tazber]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:25pm

Totally. Muchie run!

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:26pm

Dude, but couldn't Obama like put a stop to the discharges under DADT like he's putting a stop to the medical marijuana investigations, like with an executive order kind of thing?

And YWIW, isn't this medical marijuana decision exactly a case of the Justice Department getting to pick and choose which laws it will uphold and enforce? God help us all indeed.

Updated On: 10/19/09 at 04:26 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:30pm

Roscoe, to answer your question, I personally think he could and should.

Whether politically it is the right thing to do for a long-term permanent change, I am not sure. Perhaps there is a fear of a boomerang effect (some believe Gavin Newsom's activities actually helped get Bush re-elected because of the reaction to what he did).

And, I have some Doritos, if you want some.

Roscoe, to answer you question, I think this is an instance of concurrent jurisdiction, and there has been a practice when the states have spoken on a specific issue, and legalized a practice, such as euthanasia or Medical Marijuana, that the federal government would not intercede. There is a precedent there.

With DOMA,it is a Federal Statute that only deals with how marriages are viewed by the Federal Government and states other than that which the marriage was performed.


Updated On: 10/19/09 at 04:30 PM

[StockardFan]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:32pm

Doritos..........yum.....

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:33pm

Right, man, so Obama's administration is rigorously defending DOMA while conveniently ignoring drug laws.

[tazber]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:34pm

Whoa, Roscoe you like, totally blew my mind just now.

So like Obama is not afraid of conroversial decisions, but only *certain* kinds of sorta inconsequential issues?

I need another hit to process that.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:37pm

Here, man, here's some Oreos. Yeah, man, that's like totally it, Obama won't do for gays what he'll do for people who need illegal substances to get through their illnesses. Bending the law for some folks while not for others, man, kind of not a good sign for the next few years.

Damn, isn't there any Pink Floyd in this place?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:40pm

I would say Obama is reluctantly defending DOMA.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:45pm

Okay, man, like you say he's reluctant, and I say he's doing it all on purpose. So like if he's reluctant, why defend it at all? He's like the President, right? He's now shown that he can have enforced whatever laws he wants to have enforced, right, so why enforce and defend one law while letting another be conveniently ignored? What's to be reluctant about doing the right thing?

Such reluctance does not become the man who promised to be a "fierce advocate." There's nothing reluctant about bigotry.

Updated On: 10/19/09 at 04:45 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 4:57pm

Unlike Bush, Obama is following the law.

Last time I heard, the Federal Government was not denying states the right to conduct same-sex marriages, correct? Technically, that is the better analogy. Federal law defines marriage as between a man and a woman. But, it is not going to prohibit same-sex marriages in those states that have a different definition.

And again, blame the attorney in me for separating the legal arguments from the moral arguments. Though we forgot for a while, we are a nation of laws. Despite what Bush portrayed, the President is not King, and is limited in what he or she can legally do.

And, I think I will get off this Merry-Go-Round with you, because I support your objective, and believe both DADT and DOMA are unconstitutional. I just don't agree that they can be effectively, and permanently undone by Executive order.

Perhaps he should stop discharges pending a review of DADT. I think there has to be a way to start the process, but I don't know what is or is not driving Obama's actions. Perhaps the recent study issued by the Military can be used as a basis to stop the discharges. I certainly hope so.

We both want to get to the same place.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:18pm

Dude, my mom baked CUPCAKES! I also brought Twinkies.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:28pm

Merry-Go-Rounds are fun.

Heh. HA! Ha ha ha!

Hmmph...pbbbbbbblttph...buuuahhHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

*gasp*

AAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Huh huh huh....HA HA HA...ha ha...huh...ha...heh.

That was hilarious. I don't know. What?

You guys have been talking about this forever.

Updated On: 10/19/09 at 05:28 PM

[tazber]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:30pm

I have couch-lock. Can someone hand me the brownies?

[StockardFan]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:31pm

Haha!! No Matt it only seems like forever due to the time distortion issue.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:32pm

We have brownies? My head weighs, like, a ton. Does your head weigh as much as mine?

[tazber]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:36pm

How do fish sleep with no eyelids?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:42pm

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Don't make me laugh again!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Dude, that is effed up.

Updated On: 10/19/09 at 05:42 PM

[Pgenre]

Posted: 10/19/09 at 5:45pm

NEW GOAL IN LIFE:

Get stoned w/ tazber.

P