MEATLOAF'S New CD

[JRybka]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 5:52pm

I have bought MEATLOAF'S new cd and I thought hmmm.. He is doing DANCE of the Vampires. He does Seize the Night. And it is actually pretty good. He also does Angels Arise but with different lyrics. Did anyone else get this cd? And what do they think? Does he do any other DOTV music on any of the other cds?
I actually really like his version of It's All Coming Back to Me Now that he does.

[elvisitis1302]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 6:08pm

I LOVE LOVE LOVE LOVE this recording.
The new version of "Angels Arise" - called "Cry to Heaven" was actually originally written for the stage musical version of "Cry Baby" (based off the John Waters film). It was then rumored to be added into Batman: The Musical.
As far as his other albums, here is what I can think of off the top of my head:

Bat Out of Hell 2:
- Objects in the Rearview Mirror May Appear Closer Than They Are (recycled as "The Confession" in DOTV with different lyrics and slight change in the melody)

Heaven and Hell:
-Heaven Can Wait (Cut from DOTV)

Welcome to the Neighborhood:
-Original Sin/Ever Be Enough? (Recycled as two separate songs in DOTV. This was originally recorded by Pandoras Box)

There may be more, but that's what I could think of.

I'm a huge fan of DOTV and have LOTS of stuff from the show, as well as Meatloaf and ESPECIALLY Jim Steinman

[Character Actor]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 9:09pm

I love it.

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 9:16pm

I agree, a great addition to the bat out of hell collection for Meatloaf. Makes me reminisce about DOTV. I really did enjoy the show. I think it was trying to capture that half earnest, half tongue-in-cheek feel that all of Loafs music has to it, but took the wrong road by playing the two separately rather than simultaneously. A shame...

[Jane2]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 9:33pm

I love Meatloaf, and I loved DOTV. How's Meat's voice on this? the last few times I've heard him sing, it was kind of weak.

[morosco]

Posted: 11/8/06 at 9:39pm

I have always wondered how he would be as Jean Valjean.

[elvisitis1302]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 8:00am

His voice sounds great considering everything he has been through. I really hope they release sheet music to the album b/c there are some killer songs on it...
I have to say though, I don't like this rendition of "Seize the Night" I like it better with full voices and harmonies.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 9:01am

"Cry To Heaven" originated as "The Song Of Gotham City" in Jim Steinman's BATMAN: THE MUSICAL. The section with "Angels Arise" was (in Steinman's words): "appropriated & annexed & snatched for DOTV... where it was wasted" (or something along those lines)

When BATMAN fell into limbo, Steinman applied to write music & lyrics for the "Cry Baby" Broadway musical. He submitted around three songs, including the Meat Loaf version of "Cry To Heaven" (which Meat covered on BAT III) and another song known as "Speaking In Tongues" (Steinman's The Dream Engine sang this LIVE a few times)

Also:

"In The Land Of The Pig, The Butcher Is King" (note, its PIG, Meat sang it as PIGS - which is incorrect) is ALSO from the "Batman" musical. There, it is sung by the corrupt officials governing Gotham City.

If anyone's interested in hearing the Batman versions, Steinman has them available on his own personal blog (hyperlinked to the Steinman site) as well as the BATMAN MUSICAL MEMORIAL PAGE (a little fan tribute. It has just reached 5000 hits) https://www.freewebs.com/batman_themusical

Six of the BATMAN songs are available on that page and I STRONGLY RECOMMEND you HEAR the way Steinman INTENDED THEM TO BE.

The truth be told, this is not a true authentic Bat album. Just like "Dance of the Vampires" wasn't a true authentic Tanz production.

Steinman had a great vision with an album that would be called "Bat Out Of Hell III: The Final At Bat" featuring explosive new numbers such as:

"Paradise Lost", "The Monster Is Out Of The Cage" (ironically, THIS Bat III has a song called The Monster Is Loose), "God Has Left The Building" (not the song from DOTV, but a much larger piece), "No Lips, Hands Or Butts" (the sequel to Paradise By The Dashboard Light) and "The Powers Of Darkness"(extoling the virtues of the powers of darkness, lol)

Other songs would have been: "Braver Than We Are", from DOTV, the ravishing duet "Not Allowed To Love" that Batman and Catwoman sing in the Batman musical; one of the finest songs Steinman has composed in over twenty years, "What Part Of My Body Hurts The Most?" and one of the most heartbreaking songs I have EVER heard in my life "We're Still The Children We Once Were" (originating from the Batman musical also, where it was Catwoman and Batman remembering their dark pasts, their childhood selves conjured and singing in counterpoint).

All of this stuff will now be either sung by "The Dream Engine" or apart of Jim Steinman's in-development "Bat Out Of Hell" spectacular directed by Wilson Milam (of The Lieutenant of Innishmore), choreographed by Mark Dendy (currently working on The Pirate Queen), costume design by Eiko Ishioka (Bram Stoker's Dracula, Cirque du Soleil's Varieka), set & theatre design by Mark Fisher, who's staged some of the most spectacular concerts in the history of rock (Pink Floyd's "The Wall" tour & '94 tour springs to mind), animation by THE Gerald Scarfe (who designed the album cover for "The Wall" and the haunting animations in the live-shows & film. He also did the concept designs for Disney's "Hercules") and lighting by Marc Brickman.

In addition to that, Terry Jones of "Monty Python" fame, will co-write the script with Jim Steinman, which is based on his 30-year-in-development "Neverland" musical.

Meat and Jim have talked about a legitimate conclusion to the saga, in which the "Final At Bat" songs would be recorded. I have no idea if this is still happening or not...

But, Steinman's absence from this album is very sad

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 09:01 AM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 9:21am

I must add: once you've heard the Batman "Cry To Heaven" (Gotham City) and "Pig" you will abandon your BAT III forever lol

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 09:21 AM

[IssaMe]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 11:09am

As a major fan of Steinman and Mr. Loaf through the years (plus work with Meat Loaf's previous management), their (shall we say) differences and difficulties are all very sad to me.

Meat Loaf's voice, which has been somewhat patchy in recent years, is in terrific shape on the new CD...and his one night performance at the Palace was - well what is the word? - SENSATIONAL.... (but far too short for $161.00 for almost all the seats except the top balcony).

It was a historic night - and reviews (such as in the NY Post) called it his best performance in a decade.

And this with a drummer with food poisoning which could have threatened the performance going on - but being the trouper he was, he played and the drums were better than I've ever heard accompanying Meat Loaf.

One hopes for some kind of reconciliation/reunion between Steinman and Loaf.

And all you have to do is look at my screen-name here to recognize what I think of DOTV (which was the fansite that originally brought me to this one). So, even the hint of DOTV material (including the overture to open the second act of the concert) was appreciated. I think the vocal chorus in Seize the Night on the CD is far too underwhelming (a child leads it off and it builds a bit) - and I much preferred the majesty of how the song was done on stage in DOTV.

But the CD and the concert were both top-notch. Even without the what-could-have-been from Steinman!

Come on guys, patch it up --- and give us the real finale for this whole concept.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/9/06 at 5:29pm

Steinman is the real genius.

Updated On: 11/9/06 at 05:29 PM

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 3:05am

Rock, can you explain this rift between Meatloaf and Steinman? I had no idea that they didn't work together any longer.

Also, another question. Rock, your long post made me wonder a bit--why does Jim Steinman recycle so much of his own music? I like most of it very much, but why doesn't he strive to do more individual work for each show he works on rather than taking one of his existing melodies and altering the lyrics to fit? I would think he might have more theatrical success if he specifically tailored music to fit the mood and theme and story of each of the shows he composes.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 4:25am

The original "Bat Out Of Hell" started as an equal partnership between Meat and Steinman. Jim wrote the songs, Meat was the performer BUT they both took the credit (equally). On the album, as we know it, it's Meat Loaf, BAT OUT OF HELL, Songs by Jim Steinman.

Meat's (later Jim's) manager, David Sonenberg, had something to do with this (but I don't know the details well enough to go into them) and he was also the guy who chose Crawford, in DOTV, over Rob Evan and Chuck Wagner. Steinman wanted either one of THEM to play Krolock

Anyway, the album went out unlike the way it was supposed to be. It was supposed to be "Meat Loaf & Jim Steinman's Bat Out Of Hell", and now most of the public sees it as a Meat Loaf creation. It was the work of two people, Meat's singing and Jim's songwriting. It's sort'a like Julie Andrews in The Sound Of Music, except that you know Rodgers & Hammerstein wrote that musical. Most people don't know, because of that trivial (but life-altering) mistake, that Steinman was responsible for the songs. Meat, without his wanting to, gets all the credit.

That's the source of the friction. In reality, it's not really them that's fighting. It's the media that spins it that way. Meat and Jim are just two guys who like each other, who weren't really friends, more like bizarre collaborators (think Rice & Lloyd Webber), but they both have enormous ego's. Steinman never got credit where credit's due, and Meat was ruined by it.

Because everyone shifted the attention to Meat, and it didn't help that he was unstable, lead to a decade of Meat's nervous breakdowns, endless lawsuits and album flop after album flop. It's "Bat Out Of Hell" and "The Rocky Horror Picture Show" that are his real claim to fame. Steinman, on the other hand, has had a very colourful track record (and a weird one too).

"Bat Out Of Hell III: The Final At Bat" would have went ahead but a) Meat thought Steinman song's were too theatrical (the thing is, BAT *is* theatrical!) and turned most of them down & b) Steinman had a few strokes at the start of 2004, which put him out of work for a long time. He is fine now, according to what I've heard, and is working.

In answer to your second question:

I think he's definitely obsessed with self-reference. Then again, so is Lloyd Webber (except that he has a habit of recycling everyone's else music. Well, lol, it shows he has good taste!).

Steinman said somewhere that he likes to connect all his songs together. I don't know if he really meant that, because he then went on to say "either that or I'm a repetitive bum"

Lol, couldn't have put it better myself.

But Jim was never involved with THIS Bat III, except for the fact that several of his songs were covered. Jim was, also, not much involved with the Broadway DOTV. He walked out of it, and was hurt by it.

Hope that answered ur questions

Updated On: 11/10/06 at 04:25 AM

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 4:48am

Some more on the recycling:

What are you judging the recycling by?

If I had never heard any of Steinman's earlier musicals, I wouldn't have guessed that 50% of them had gone into "Tanz". I think "Tanz", as it is in German, is better than anything Lloyd Webber has done since "Superstar" and "Evita".

Stuff like "Total Eclipse of the Heart" and "Tonight is What it Means to be Young" didn't work on Broadway because, first of all, they transformed it into a meaningless comedy which made the songs seem like inner jokes. The audience were, literally, laughing every time the theme from "Total Eclipse" would play. In Vienna, there was *dead* silence.

The audience were captivated. It was a soaring gothic rock opera, and its mood (for me) eclipses the fact that a fair amount of it is more than 20 years old. I'd never have guessed.

Then again, the feel and the arrangements of "The Confidence Man" are sooo different to "Tanz", you almost think it's all new. I do think, when done right, it works really well.

I don't think anyone should jduge his recycling based on what they heard in the Broadway DOTV, because, for starters, he damns the musical and lost all "authentic" involvement when it became a farce with a cast & team who were apart of the wrong show.

Updated On: 11/10/06 at 04:48 AM

[Theatreboy33]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 10:50am

All I can judge his recycling by is DOTV and Tanz, also the little bits of Batman which you have on your website. And I don't think the recycling is necessarily a bad thing. All the songs are so theatrical and grand and pulsating with feeling they really all are quite perfect for the stage ( i have to say with perhaps the one exception being the jokers song. just didnt care for that one). Like you (and Steinman), I sincerely wish DOTV hadnt gone so awry in its broadway incarnation. The clips I've seen of it on youtube in its German version are drastically better than my experience seeing Crawford. Like i said before, Steinman's music, to me, has a wonderful quality of being both grand and emotional AND tongue in cheek and slightly satirical. I recall a quote of his being "if you never go over the top, how will you know what is on the other side?" which has always been a favorite line of mine. And that's really what his music does so well. It is SO grand and SO theatrical that it of course strattles that delicate line between earnest, dramatic music and over the top spectacle. And DOTV made them two separate thing. David Ives' book transformed every book scene into an over the top comic romp while Rando's direction tried to steer every song back to the realm of earnest and dramatic. THe result was an atmosphere of discomfort, where the audiences didn't know whether to laugh or be amazed. If the two had been intertwined better, as they seem to be in TANZ with Krolock providing the earnest dramatic moments, and the professor and his pupil providing the comic relief, then I think it might have had a much greater chance at success.

[rockfenris2005]

Posted: 11/10/06 at 10:51pm

Warning: LONG post

The DOTV story is a complicated one. If you ever get the chance to read the draft from November 2001 (it is "out there" so to speak) then, for me, that is an amazing alternative to Germany. This also features the excised love duet "Is Nothing Sacred" (it had been written into the show. Meat Loaf had recorded it, previously, and it was cut from Celine Dion's "Let's Talk About Love". At one stage, it was going to be in "Titanic", the movie).

This script was created by David Ives, with assistance from Jim Steinman and John Caird (the "Les Mis" director who was tapped to direct). It's one of the most beautiful and ironic, spine-chilling reads I've ever had. Most of this precious irony was written out, replaced by Crawford's meddling and dumbed down waaay out of proportion. There were also a lot of references to "Neverland"

The original show, first of all, would have been the Viennese production directly translated. This was supposed to open, on Broadway, sometime between 1998 - 2000. I think the reason it didn't was: they couldn't get Polanski into the States.

Sometime between 2000 - 2001, the show started to receive drastic alterations. The libretto became a more traditional musical, with spoken dialogue, but still scary. The opening sequence was changed. Steinman claims that of the songs he wrote, none of them were ever authentic because they were "snatched" from "Batman" and other shows he'd been working on. The full "Angels Arise" (and "Cry to Heaven") is an operatic sequence for Gotham City in "Batman".

David Ives became the new librettist, who wrote a very smart and biting script (none of which was in the Broadway show. All of that was changed, and probably not by him). John Caird and Jim Steinman would co-direct, working side by side, and Sonenberg and the German producers (who seemed to be phased out at some point) would collaborate with the producing team of Williams & Waxman (they, too, disappeared...)

Steinman wanted Rob Evan or Chuck Wagner to play the part of Krolock. Sonenberg, his manager, who not only pushed for the show to be re-written as a comedy, wanted a star.

Michael Crawford was hired to do the show (apparently at an astronomical price. He, later, gave all this money to charity). Crawford had creative input, probably because he was the highest paid star in the theatre ("A towering talent" Steinman said. But the story is this... Steinman only wanted to record one of the songs with Crawford. Sonenberg came along and said, "wow! We could do the show with him!" Or at least that's what I read once.)

None of the author's "original" work survives into the Broadway run. Steinman's songs had all been cobbled together, from English translations of "Tanz" (the show was first written in English) and drafts he'd done with Ives and Caird. John Caird and the choreographer, Daniel Ezralow, were replaced by the comedy team of John Rando & John Carraffa (sp?) who had NO IDEA what they were doing!

Choosing the Minskoff was another mistake, because it was too big to convey what had, initially, been a seriously spooky and intimate piece in Vienna. Yes, that had big sets, but it was "closer" (if you get what I mean) and it wasn't so "big".

Everything about DOTV was just one big "collision" in everything gone wrong. I've heard differing rumours about Crawford, in which he was a "rock" to the cast, and others where he was a monster. I don't know what to believe

I've read most of the reviews (I collected them back in 2002) and they're some of the most hysterical, over-the-top pans I've ever read! LOL. Most of them blame Steinman, Ives and Kunze for what was seen onstage. The real work they'd done had been written out.

However, the controversial issue is this: Steinman's "no-show" at opening night. Tim Rice was bombed by "Chess", in '85, but he still went (and his father had died around the same time). I agree that it was a rude thing to do, and it upset a lot of people, but would you turn up to a show that was no longer yours? Where everything you'd contributed had been laughed at, mis-conceived and mocked? (i.e. Carraffa even thought there should be a "wig fight" in Carpe Noctem. Asa Somers, who played Herbert, said it was supposed to be funny. Carpe ISN'T funny!)

There's a story of Jim sitting in the front row, in a matinee, taking notes on what needed to be changed. By the time the show was over, he had around ten pages of notes. Rumour has it, after Sonenberg (his manager) came crawling back (he'd been thrown off the production, and sacked as Steinman's manager), Steinman read every single note - in painstaking detail - over the phone, which went on for hours and hours. Now Sonenberg is back with Jim, and Jim is working on the BAT extravaganza. The whole lawsuit "thing" with Meat was the result of a rivalry between two managers.

Meat thinks Sonenberg is the devil, Jim thinks Meat's manager is the devil. Meat and Jim are actually good friends, but their managers are always keeping them apart. Sonenberg screwed Jim's chance of proper billing on the original "Bat", and he screwed Jim out of DOTV. Why? Because he screamed for a musical comedy (it was vogue) and said it needed the star. At the time, that may have seemed like a good idea, but it obviously didn't turn out that way.

Whatever the case, that's (sort of) how it was. Some fans were peed when Meat had the gall to put non-Steinman songs on BAT III, but Jim hadn't been involved for ages (he was offered a deal as the producer, the highest recording deal in the history of music. He turned it down. I don't know why)

There were rumours that Meat wanted 50% of everything BAT related. I can see why Steinman wouldn't want that, and I can see why Meat would. But Meat has to remember he was just the singer! It was a minor error that resulted in everyone associating the project with him, even HE said that. But his stupid management have been causing trouble for years.

Bottom line is, Meat wanted Jim involved. Jim wanted to do this album. So something SERIOUSLY fishy went on here...

Updated On: 11/10/06 at 10:51 PM