No Cabaret Guide In Newly Restored NYT Arts Listings

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/25/05 at 11:31am

For the NYT to restore Off-Broadway & Off-Off-Broadway listings & yet not to reinstate the Cabaret Guide is a travesty. & I'm not just talking about a capsule of what Holden has reviewed, I'm talking about listing the shows at the clubs the way they were done previously.

What's being done about this?

Milla

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/25/05 at 3:24pm

FYI, Very interesting response on Talkin' Broadway & linked below.

"Off- and even off-off shows advertise with NYT much more...in the case of off-b'way, those shows take larger, more frequent, and more costly ads.

Cabaret advertising in the Times is usually sparse and small, when there is any at all. And I'm sure you've noticed that much of the time, the rooms that advertise in NYT are the rooms that covered practically as a matter of course, regardless of the quality of the shows they present.

Vicious cabaret circle: if you are in a smaller room that has a lower cover charge and you pay a press agent with the power to get you reviewed in NYT and you advertise your show enough in NYT (especially), TONY (not cheap), etc. enough to make it an event that the critics feel they should cover, there's no way you can break even unless you run a good, long time in front of a paying audience. It's the same for a Broadway show now, only on a bigger scale -- everything takes 1-2 years minimum to recoup.

I think all the rooms (especially the mid- and entry level ones in a major way) and to a smaller degree the performers who want all this free coverage and listings need to step up. "But it's so expensive" is not an excuse; part of being in any business is advertising and a person should think of that before they go in to business. They can't come if they don't know.

Spending the cash to make a product visible is part of building a career (or 'brand recognition') and talent has nothing to do with it. No show business career is made without serious cash outlay from someone: a producer, a recording company, or the performer himself.

The paradox of it all is that ads in these publications (NYT included), in the case of cabaret, seldom generate enough actual ticket buyers to pay for the ad. It's heartbreaking, but most cabaret performers have a store full of a product that very few people want. Practically no one under 40 raised outside of NYC, LA, or Chicago has even been brought up in a culture where they would routinely think of going to cabaret shows as an entertainment option-- for them, going to cabaret is a behavior that must be learned.

Also, look at how high the talent bar is in New York, and then look at the majority of cabaret shows; I go to cabaret all the time and there are very few people who play Danny's, Mama, Duplex, etc. who give a show that's really,truly worth a $15 cover, 2 rotten small ice-filled drinks, and tip when you can get an off-Bway ticket for the same money or a discount Bway ticket for only a little more. And on the other hand, the fact that you can't get out of Feinstein's for less than $125 (and that's conservative) -- well, that's no bargain either.

Everyone whined when TONY gave up their cabaret page, but seldom did I see any of the people doing the loudest whining advertising their show on that page during the years it existed. And when they did, the ads were often the cheapest (1/16 page b&w).

It almost always goes back to the unholy dollar, Milla. When cabaret as a whole gets itself together and GENERATES REVENUE for these publications where it claims it wants so desperately to be visible, these 'loss of coverage' issues won't happen that often and when they do they will be quickly reversed.

The cabaret community needs to face some ugly facts about where they stand in the entertainment world (and for many of the performers, where they are on the talent ladder). Many of the hardest working people in organizations like MAC sadly turn out to be--in front of an objective eye--mediocre performers at best, performing material of little interest to an outsider who does not know them personally.

Can you honestly say that most cabaret shows really deserve a listing? Sure there's lots of crap on B'way and at the movies, but those shows/films generate $ for NYT through ads.

Cabaret must stop operating from a place of entitlement-- those listings are a bonus, not a god-given right. Cabaret must start operating by the same rules as other businesses-- they must generate an innovative product that really deserves coverage and make money for the media outlets that publicize them. Then, and only then, will cabaret's visibility issues turn around."

Milla
The NYT is a business concern.

[Firefly]

Posted: 4/25/05 at 4:31pm

What a lovely attitude - maybe the NYT needs to start hearing from THEIR customers - readers who want the information in their papers.

(And by the way, in most other cities I've lived/worked in, music listings are NOT paid advertising - display ads, etc. are paid, but a basic listing is free because readers want to know what's going on in town)

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/25/05 at 5:44pm

Firefly, you're so right!

Milla

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/26/05 at 8:29pm

bump

[Firefly]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 10:24am

If I was in NY and concerned about this (not that I don't care - just am not in that part of the country right now!), I would try to spread the word (maybe info for patrons at as many venues as possible) and get large numbers of NYT readers/subscribers to contact them and express their views.

I think that's the only approach that will have a significant effect - hearing from the people who provide their income that they want to see the listings.

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 5:49pm

Firefly, thanks for your thoughts & ideas. Unfortunately, the cabaret community is disorganized with no real show business educated leadership. So the chances of a concerted effort from them is next to nil.

Milla

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 6:05pm

To those who are interested, below is a continuation of the conversation:

"I re-read my initial post; I'm aware that it has its harsh moments, which certainly aren't directed at you--though I've never met you in person, I know from reading here how much you care about cabaret and live performance, as do I. Let's get some constructive dialogue going!

Overall, Milla, I think we want the same thing -- I would love to see cabaret become more mainstream again; when I look at old Playbills or vintage magazines etc and see how major stars performed with combos or even small orchestras in rooms with no cover (the club paid the performer and because the show was so good, it was an inducement to come to the room!) during the golden days...that people went to a nightclub after the theatre and saw still another show...it's like another world.

I sincerely hope cabaret doesn't go the way of opera -- and become so rarified and financially prohibitive that most people cannot afford to enjoy it regularly. For an evening at Feinstein's or the Oak Room or the Carlyle to ultimately be more expensive than an orchestra seat at a Broadway show is, in my opinion, ridiculous. Something that expensive can never be truly mainstream. Lots of wanna be cabaret singers I know can't afford to see the best in the business.

It's not like me to accentuate the negative -- but there is A LOT that must change (which may cause some hurt feelings) if cabaret is to make the great strides that it could, I truly believe, make. It won't happen overnight and it won't happen without difficulty. It's mainly a raising of the standards and some simple economics...

--Think"
Ooh, good! I await your full response.

[do_re_milla]

Posted: 4/27/05 at 6:10pm

Just to keep you up to date, my response to Think. The link to cabarethotline is below:

"Think, I really appreciate your posts & linked the previous 1 (as I will this 1) to the cabarethotline. I feel it has raised some awareness.

If you're interested, I have linked below, my recent post on this topic.

I'm still ruminating on your original post but find that I am basically in agreement. I will still post a response as I feel your thoughts will be most helpful.

Milla"

Thank you Milla (honest, that's what it's called) Updated On: 4/27/05 at 06:10 PM