shows starting late

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 8/11/08 at 11:39pm

have there been instances when someone (i don't know who makes the decision... the stage manager or house manager i'm assuming)... starts a show late for outside reasons... i'm asking because i once attended a show in Los Angeles at a very small theater and i took a bunch of college students... about 20... and they were all going to sit in a group... well it was almost curtain time and i told a manager that i had a large group of students coming in and they were stuck in traffic and that they were about 10 minutes away... and she actually delayed the start for about 15 minutes... which was really nice of her... is that a common occurence ever on broadway?

[Calvin]

Posted: 8/11/08 at 11:58pm

A community theatre I used to work with was located near a train track where industrial trains that moved very slowly crossed (you get caught by one, and you were stuck there maybe 15-20 minutes. If one crossed near a show time, the theatre went ahead and delayed curtain.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 12:06am

Depending on the length of the show (that is, if it comes in very close to three hours) it may intentionally start five minutes past posted curtain time. We do that very often in opera. By contracting the orchestra to start five minutes later it keeps you from paying them for possible holds, plus helps to avoid going into overtime, which can get very expensive.

[the.hard.part]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 12:14am

the theatre I work at will sometimes delay if necessary, but there are times that it cannot start more then 15min-20min after scheduled apparently its an equity rule.

[george95]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 12:16am

When I saw Brooklyn The Musical on Dec.31, 2004, the show started about 40 minutes late, because so many people were stuck behind the barricades on 8th Avenue. The police made everyone show a photo ID to get past and onto 45th St. People were yelling they were going to miss their shows. A guy in a suit came up to the barricaded and shouted "does anyone have tickets for Brooklyn?" And a bunch of people said yes, and he said not to worry and they were holding the curtain. He said we should show him our tickets and he would let us pass. Then a police officer said "I told you pal not to do that, if I see you again you're arrested" and the guy said "but I'm the producer!" and the cop said "get out of here!" It was pretty funny but then the joke was on us when the show did eventually start : (

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 12:25am

"but there are times that it cannot start more then 15min-20min after scheduled apparently its an equity rule."

Once again that comes down to overtime. If a show lasts more than three hours the actors and the crew also go into overtime. And that three hours does include delays in holding the house, though that can sometimes be waived for certain conditions, but not often.

If the orchestra start time is adjusted as I described above, the calls for the actors and crew are adjusted as well to also avoid them going into overtime.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 11:36am

"Depending on the length of the show (that is, if it comes in very close to three hours) it may intentionally start five minutes past posted curtain time."

With the exception of shows that have a 3-hour running time, MOST shows start five minutes after. This is due mainly to the number of theatergoers who arrive at curtain time, and the disruptions that occur when they are being seated. Shows that approach three hours generally start two to three minutes after curtain time, in an attempt to get the show over by 11:00pm. I have never once seen a show start at its stated curtain time.

"If the orchestra start time is adjusted as I described above, the calls for the actors and crew are adjusted as well to also avoid them going into overtime."

I don't believe the call time on Broadway for Actors can be less than 30 minutes...though someone with more knowledge on the subject can probably confirm or refute that. As for the crew, the stage has to be ready before the house opens, and Local One definitely has strict rules about start and end times in its agreement with the League.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 1:03pm

What I meant by adjusted is that as opposed to 7:30 for an 8:00 show, it would be 7:35, etc. They would still have their required half hour, it would just coincide to the time that they actually plan to raise a curtain. When you are doing Gypsy, My Fair Lady, and many of those other shows that push the three hour mark, those five minutes can be a life-saver in terms of avoiding overtime.

For the shows that are nowhere near three hours, they do not have to adjust contracted start times for the orchestra, as they still generally get paid for three hours whether you run 2:30 or 2:45 or whatever. In rare instances, you may contract the orchestra for less than that time, but that can really only happen if your show is super short. For a couple of productions I stage managed, namely Joseph (ours was barely 90 minutes with intermission) and Cavalleria Rusticana (a little over an hour and done solo, not paired with another one act), the orchestra was contracted for only two hours. I'm not sure if Local 802 would allow that to happen, but out in the regions it is easier to negotiate things like that with the AFM locals, as it is easier to just avoid working with them than it is here in New York and they would rather have the work.

Generally crew calls range from 1 to 2 hours before the house opens, depending on the department and the needs of the show. I have done some shows regionally where the crew call was 1 hour before curtain, but that was because there was a heavy grand drape being used as the show curtain and they could continue to work upstage of that once the house was open. Of course, this was Local 27 I was working with, and Local 1 may not allow that as they are always looking to wring as much money out of the producers as possible.

[Fosse76]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 1:59pm

"What I meant by adjusted is that as opposed to 7:30 for an 8:00 show, it would be 7:35, etc. They would still have their required half hour, it would just coincide to the time that they actually plan to raise a curtain. When you are doing Gypsy, My Fair Lady, and many of those other shows that push the three hour mark, those five minutes can be a life-saver in terms of avoiding overtime."

The problem is the curtain times are 8:00pm, or 2:00pm, or 3:00pm or 7:00pm for those shows. Therefore, the call cannot be at 7:35pm, or 6:35pm, or 1:35pm, or 2:35pm. I am not sure how standard it is on Broadway, but at Shubert houses the show cannot start until the house manger releases the house to the production. So it may not matter when the production call times are...at least when it comes to those 3-hour shows.

[Byron Abens]

Posted: 8/12/08 at 2:37pm

Equity, AGMA, AFM, and IATSE don't care what is printed on the ticket or told to the public. Their concern is what is in the contract and the schedules set forth by the stage manager & producer, as well as making sure all time increments are followed (i.e. no more than half-hour call before curtain, barring extenuating circumstances such as extensive make-up, etc, 1 and a half hours between shows, standard, no less than 1 hour if a meal is provided, no show starting before 1:00 pm or after 11:00 pm)

If you contract an 8:05 start time for instance with the orchestra, then officially that is your start time as far as the other unions are also concerned. That means you can indeed set the actors' half hour at 7:35 (because if you are concerned about the show going over three hours and avoiding orchestra overtime, you would also want to do the same with the actors. That does still affect your IATSE crew member, as the house would in all likelihood still open at 7:30.

As I said it is a common way of padding that time. If your show runs 2:58, or even an exact 3:00, a smart producer is not going to risk going into overtime by contracting an orchestra to start at 8:00, knowing full well that it is next to impossible to guarantee an 8:00 curtain up. Orchestra time starts at the time stated in their contracts, not the downbeat from the conductor. And that is the same for actors, their time starts at whatever the half-hour call is set, so if you go over 3:30 in time from the start of the half-hour call then they get an overtime payment.

Of course this could mean there may occasionally be times when the audience may be sitting for a couple of minutes, but that is far more preferable than having to pay everyone overtime. For Equity members that is a half-hour's worth of overtime, even if the show goes over by only one minute. In the contract that just expired the overtime rate was $41/hour, and I'm sure that figure will be increasing once the new contract is ratified. It may not seem like a lot, but if it happens on a regular basis that quickly adds up.