Hello Dolly additional songs- Page 2

[gypsy101]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 7:12pm

Dollypop said: "You know "Motherhood" might get cut from this version. Gower loved the song but all the characters wind up in the same exact spots that they started from and it does nothing to advance the plot."

it's a cute song but i've always thought that it is pointless. it's fun for some stage business (it i remember correctly it's supposed to serve as a distraction from Cornelius and Barnaby) but not much else

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 7:29pm

I had hoped "World Take Me Back" would make the cut. It's just one of Herman's most infectious melodies, so brimming with syncopation and pizzazz . Those rim shots that punctuate it for Merman are snazzy and kinda wonderful. But as several noted, it steals from just about everything, most egregiously, the first act finale written long afterward. In a way "World Take Me Back" is a second "I Want" song, and it doesn't belong in the middle of act one, and certainly not close to "Parade."  It's a gem, but it won't fit.

"Love is Only Love" could be sweet, and though written for "Mame" (anyone hear Lansbury's take? It's sublime), it could land with Midler. But does the show need it?  Doubtful. Dolly has never been a big sing for the leading lady, and piling on solos doesn't facilitate the storytelling. She's not a pause and reflect kind of character, which is why "Parade" has potency. If Dolly keeps stopping to have emotional epiphanies, what's special about the end of act one?

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 8:34pm

Auggie27 said: "I had hoped "World Take Me Back" would make the cut. It's just one of Herman's most infectious melodies, so brimming with syncopation and pizzazz . Those rim shots that punctuate it for Merman are snazzy and kinda wonderful. But as several noted, it steals from just about everything, most egregiously, the first act finale written long afterward. In a way "World Take Me Back" is a second "I Want" song, and it doesn't belong in the middle of act one, and certainly not close to "Parade."  It's a gem, but it won't fit."

Which is why I suggest the alternate placement in my reply above. It was used to great effect in that spot in an amateur production I once saw.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 8:49pm

Sorry, if "World" is interpolated, it has to be before the parade. That's where Dolly sets her determination and leads to her descent at the Harmonica Gardens. For her to sing the song in the "Money, money, money" scene is ludicrous. At that point she knows what she wants and is getting it.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 8:52pm

g.d.e.l.g.i. said: "We paid top dollar to see Bette Midler. How about we actually see Bette Midler?

 

I'm not paying to see Bette Midler. I'm paying to see "Hello, Dolly!" Honey Boo Boo could be playing the part and I'd still be seeing it!

 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 10:54pm

Dollypop said: "Sorry, if "World" is interpolated, it has to be before the parade. That's where Dolly sets her determination and leads to her descent at the Harmonica Gardens. For her to sing the song in the "Money, money, money" scene is ludicrous. At that point she knows what she wants and is getting it.

 

"

I agree. Every time Dolly gets to "Ephram, I'm still waiting for a sign" in that last scene, I think "Oh, yeah, there's that." The action already seems resolved to me, the moment certainly doesn't require a big belt number covering desires she's already numerated.

***

Charles Strauss (in his autobiography) finally put an end to the rumor that he and Lee Adams wrote "Before the Parade Passes By" (Strauss claims they did write a number with that title, but Herman later wrote an entirely different version).

So now you've shifted attention to "Motherhood"! What gives? Who supposedly helped with that? (Not that I would want to claim it.)

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:19pm

I believe that was also Strauss. Herman wrote little things like. "To form a more perfect Union" and "I regret that I've got life to give for my country"

[muscle23ftl]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:21pm

I would love to see "Love Is Only Love"

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:21pm

^^^ Strange that Strauss didn't mention it, since he devotes a sizable chapter to his experience on Dolly! Maybe as I said, he just doesn't want to claim it. LOL.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:24pm

Or was it Morrell?

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:31pm

Dollypop, do you mean Bob Merrill?

He supposedly wrote "Elegance" for something else originally. I've never heard the story of how that song got to Dolly!, but it fits rather well.

I know the tryout for the show was tortuous and full of infighting between Champion and Merrick, but jeeze, Louise! It's not as if Jerry Herman was short on talent!

Why is so much of the score credited to others or, per litigation, unintentionally plagiarized?

 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:34pm

On page 80 of Jerry's memoir he says it was Merrill 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:37pm

On page 80 of Jerry's memoir, he says it was Merrill 

 

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:38pm

^ Pop, I believed you the first time!

 

Does Herman say why they resorted to interpolating at least two songs? I know it was more common to do so at the time.

Updated On: 1/15/17 at 11:38 PM

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 1/15/17 at 11:45pm

The main reason Herman didn't want LuPone near this was because they wanted to make changes and Herman wanted a reproduction of the original. Now the show will have a new design and staging so maybe he will be flexible about the score, at least it's stuff he wrote.  My preference is to do the show as it was done before, if it ain't broke,,,,,

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/16/17 at 12:34am

so much of the show's success depended on the original staging.

[NoName3]

Posted: 1/17/17 at 12:34am

Here's what I remember and I'm very open to correction:

For years rumors circulated that Bob Merrill wrote Motherhood March and Elegance and Strouse/Adams (not STRAUSS) wrote Before the Parade Passes By.

Herman acknowledged in his autobiography that Merrill wrote the original Elegance but claimed he rewrote it, or at least parts of it. He also acknowledged that Strouse and Adams wrote a number called Before the Parade Passes By for the first act finale but that he went to Merrick and begged to be given a chance write the finale and wrote his song of the same title but that it was entirely original and not based on the Strouse/Adams song and his song was used. A further rumor was that Motherhood March was left out of the film because Merrill's authorship was not disputed and for that reason Herman hated it and nobody wanted to pay additional royalties to Merrill. I think a more likely reason is that, as pointed out above, it doesn't advance the plot in any way. But I still adore it.

In his autobiography, Herman claims that he had never heard or heard of "Sunflower," whose writer sued Herman for plagiarism over the title song. Herman claims he wanted to take the case to court to clear his name but was pressured to settle because the lawsuit was holding up the multi-million dollar sale of the film rights (an out-of-court settlement in favor of the plaintiff was made). Judge for yourself at the youtube link below.

More trivia: When Merrick sold the film rights to Hello, Dolly!, he included a clause that said the film could not be released until the Broadway production had closed. Unexpectedly, the original production remained popular and continued to run, especially after Merman went in; the show once again became the hottest ticket in town. The film ended up sitting in the can for months. Fox was especially distraught because they had wanted the huge Fourteenth Street parade sets to be seen first in Dolly! but they had allowed George Roy Hill to film the New York sequence in Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid there. So now they had two big, expensive films sitting in the can. Hill solved Butch Cassidy's problem by turning the Butch Cassidy New York sequence in his film into a black-and-white photo montage concentrating on the principals with little of the set seen. But Fox ended up paying Merrick an additional million dollars to waive the clause and let the film of Dolly! be released.

Danny Lockin had been a Broadway replacement as Barnaby in Dolly!, went to Hollywood to play the part in the film, and then went back to Broadway to play the part in Merman's closing company opposite the Minnie Fay of Georgia Engel. He was later brutally and sadistically stabbed to death by a trick he had picked up at an LA gay bar.

Mack David's Sunflower at Youtube
 

Updated On: 1/29/19 at 12:34 AM

[NoName3]

Posted: 1/17/17 at 1:11am

Related BWW thread (fascinating to me because it includes many plausible but probably never confirmable rumors I've heard over the years, for example, Frank Loesser's being the actual writer of My White Knight and Bock and Harnick's having ghost-written songs for several hit musicals):

How much of HELLO, DOLLY did Herman write?

 

Updated On: 1/17/17 at 01:11 AM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/17/17 at 2:43pm

Thanks for the info and the correction, NoName. My ear knows the difference between Strauss and Strouse, but my fingers are tone deaf.

[NoName3]

Posted: 1/17/17 at 8:40pm

Not to worry, Gaveston, I had to update my own post because I had typed Strauss/Adams at one point. I always enjoy and appreciate your posts.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 1/17/17 at 10:05pm

Wow I never knew about the Sunflower claims. I think it's definitely a stretch. 

[Dollypop]

Posted: 1/18/17 at 8:04am

A friend of mine in the cast has told me he's had to sign a nondisclosure clause as part of his contract. Very little information will trickle out of rehearsals.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 1/18/17 at 4:50pm

Mr. Nowack said: "Wow I never knew about the Sunflower claims. I think it's definitely a stretch. 

 

"

I agree and I appreciate the chance to hear "Sunflower". I'd always assumed it was much more like Herman's tune than it is.

[Stage Door Sally]

Posted: 1/18/17 at 7:05pm

I would be deeply saddened if I Put My Hand In was cut. It's a fun piece. I love it.

Updated On: 1/18/17 at 07:05 PM