A different point of view
A different point of view
Joined: 12/31/69
A different point of view#0
Posted: 7/16/04 at 3:49am
I post this simply so that the left hand can know what the right is doing. This was posted on another board, and it gave me some pause for thought - but I'll keep those thoughts to myself.
YOU KNOW YOU'RE A LIBERAL IF:
1) You believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of funding.
2) You are against capital punishment, but for abortion on demand, in short you support protecting the guilty and killing the innocent.
3) You believe that the same public school teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
4) You believe that trial lawyers are selfless heroes and doctors are overpaid.
5) You believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than nuclear weapons in the hands of the Red Chinese.
6) You believe that global temperatures is not affected by cyclical, documented changes in the Sun, but is really affected by SUVs.
7) You believe that gender roles are artificial but being gay is natural.
You believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.
9) You believe that hunters don't care about nature but animal rights activists who've never been outside Seattle do.
10) You believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.
11) You believe there was no art before federal funding.
12) You believe the free market that gives us 500+ channels of entertainment can't deliver the quality that PBS does.
13) You believe the NRA is evil, because it stands up for the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because they attempt to create a new Constitution out of thin air.
14) You believe that taxes are too low but ATM fees are too high.
15) You believe that Harriet Tubman, Cesar Chavez and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Dolly Madison or Thomas Edison.
16) You believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't.
17) You believe that second-hand smoke is more dangerous than HIV.
1 You believe Hilary Clinton is really a lady and Rosie O'Donnell is really funny.
19) You believe that conservatives are racists, but that black people couldn't make it without your help.
20) You believe the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
21) You believe that posting the "Ten Commandments" in schools will hurt the children, but putting "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Ask Alice" (on the internet) won't.
22) You called Vietnam Veterans "baby killers" but think that allowing a woman to suck her baby into a sink is a constitutionally protected right.
23) You think sexual harassment is rampant, date rape pervasive, domestic violence common and Paula Jones is lying.
24) You think trees have feelings, animals can conceptualize and the fetus is a blob of protoplasm.
25) You consider the Catholic bishops noble and idealistic when they oppose capital punishment and welfare cuts but dangerous fanatics trying to legislate their theology when they defend the right to life.
re: A different point of view#1
Posted: 7/16/04 at 7:52am
Some of that I find to be pointedly true! Some of it is just wrong or I do not feel that way (while some liberals indeed do).
I suppose my response could be the same as a GOP's response to the other thread.
These two offended me as if it really is supposed to draw an ironic conclusion:
7) You believe that gender roles are artificial but being gay is natural.
21) You believe that posting the "Ten Commandments" in schools will hurt the children, but putting "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Ask Alice" (on the internet) won't.
If believing in those two things is at all wrong, then oops, I'm wrong. Proudly.
:)
re: A different point of view#2
Posted: 7/16/04 at 8:09am
I am a died-in-the-wool, tried-and-true, unapologetic liberal. I know that some of the folks on the far right create stuff like this just to piss me off and spread their propaganda to world. Try as I might, I couldn't possibly formulate one short, pithy, general response to this horrific bastardization of the English language, so let's take these one at a time, shall we?:
1) You believe the AIDS virus is spread by a lack of funding.
The lack of funding for education and prevention does have a direct effect on the spread of the virus -- I'm sorry, but that's not debatable. "Abstinence only" education is one of the main reasons that new infections are on the rise throughout the country.
2) You are against capital punishment, but for abortion on demand, in short you support protecting the guilty and killing the innocent.
The flawed assumption here is that the only way to properly punish those guilty of capital crimes is by imposition of the death penalty. That is incorrect. Personally, I have no problem with giving those convicted of particularly heinous crimes a sentence of life without the possiblilty of parole. Frankly, I think that that is in many ways a harsher punishment than lethal injection. But, further, I don't believe that the state should be in the business of handing out death sentences -- the death penalty has been abolished in nearly all the civilized countries of the free world. Most of the countries that still allow capital punishment are nations (China, North Korea, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq) that have been cited by Amnesty International and other Human Rights organizations for a plethora of human rights abuses.
There's also the issue that the death penalty, as curently administered, may be racially biased (blacks are far more likely to receive a sentence of death, rather than life imprisonment, than whites committing factually similar crimes) and that reversable errors have been found to frequently occur in capital cases -- DNA evidence has completely exonerated hundreds of men scheduled to be executed (See, the cases overturned by Barry's Scheck's Innocence Project at Cardozo Law School, as well as dozens of other cases nationwide).
The system doesn't work and certainly the killing of innocent people (as has happened often in the US) is the shame and degradation of any truly civilized society. This isn't about liberalism, it's about justice.
3) You believe that the same public school teacher who can't teach 4th graders how to read is qualified to teach those same kids about sex.
The flawed assumption is that all or most 4th grade public school teachers are unqualified, which simply is not true. Further, last I checked, sex education in any school requires consent of the parent -- if the parent doesn't want their child to participate, the school doesn't force it onto him or her. The fact is that most parents are loathe to discuss sex with their children, and as a matter of public health (and for the good of the children) public education attempts to educate kids to protect themselves -- so necessary in this day and age.
4) You believe that trial lawyers are selfless heroes and doctors are overpaid.
Huh?
5) You believe that guns in the hands of law-abiding Americans are more of a threat than nuclear weapons in the hands of the Red Chinese.
The RED Chinese? Is this 1973? Did Henry Kissinger write this question?
6) You believe that global temperatures is not affected by cyclical, documented changes in the Sun, but is really affected by SUVs.
That's right, car emissions have absolutely no effect on the environment and that global warming is a myth -- ooh, somebody give me a tree to hug.
7) You believe that gender roles are artificial but being gay is natural.
Um, yeah. "Gender roles????" That's right -- she better be barefoot and pregnant and have my dinner on the table or there will be HELL to pay .... Where's my Levitra?
8 ) You believe that businesses create oppression and governments create prosperity.
Well...... I suppose that's true of SOME businesses (like Halliburton) and SOME governments (like this one under Clinton), but otherwise ..... um, NO.
9) You believe that hunters don't care about nature but animal rights activists who've never been outside Seattle do.
Well, not sure exactly who believes the first half of that, and as far as the second half, PERSONALLY (and I do mean personally) -- if it's referring to PETA -- since they don't believe in ANY medical testing on animals (whether it be for AIDS drugs, cancer drugs, Alzheimer's drugs, etc...), I personally don't support them. I can't speak for any other liberals on that.
10) You believe that self-esteem is more important than actually doing something to earn it.
Didn't realize this was a political point, but, as far as early childhood development is concerned, that is often the case. Instilling a child with confidence and self-belief is often a self-fulfilling prophesy -- a child who believes he can do certain task is far more likely to be able to accomplish that task than a child without that belief. This is also true of adults. Not sure what the hell this question is criticizing about liberals ......
11) You believe there was no art before federal funding.
OK, exhaustion is starting to set in........ Yeah, that's right. The National Endowment for the Arts was established in 1965. Before that -- No Art. Anywhere. Uh-uh. Just didn't happen.... Yeah, federal funding of the arts is just a bad idea -- Michelangelo, Da Vinci, Mozart ..... can't imagine they had any funding -- their wealthy patrons just happened to be, in effect, the main supports of the governments of their times....
Ya know, I could name a thousand masterpieces of art, music, literature, theatre and culture that wouldn't exist were it not for "government" patronage of one form or another, but I'll save that for another time.
12) You believe the free market that gives us 500+ channels of entertainment can't deliver the quality that PBS does.
First, I didn't realize conservatives hated PBS. Only liberal children watch Sesame Street? Mister Rogers? Nova? Nature? Tucker Carlson's Show? Damn Liberals!
And if the conservatives look at all of those other 500 channels and think "oooh, quality entertainment," well then, god bless 'em.
13) You believe the NRA is evil, because it stands up for the Constitution, while the ACLU is good, because they attempt to create a new Constitution out of thin air.
Nice to see that there's no slant in any of these statements. The ACLU represents the First Amendment, regardless of the parties seeking its protection. Over the years, the ACLU has represented Nazis, the Klan, the Panthers, and groups from the ultra-right and ultra-left wing of the political spectrum. They are non-partisan. They've never tried to "create a new Constitution" -- rather, they've tried to protect the old one from misinformed swipes such as this one.
14) You believe that taxes are too low but ATM fees are too high.
Yep (actually, just taxes on the top 1% of the populace -- the rest of us could use a real tax break, which we haven't seen in the last three-and-a-half years)
15) You believe that Harriet Tubman, Cesar Chavez and Gloria Steinem are more important to American history than George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, Dolly Madison or Thomas Edison.
A poorly constructed, cheap and dishonest comparison. Washington and Jefferson are unassailable. The others are great Americans of extraordinary and groundbreaking accomplishment (though, I find it interesting that the most acceptable white woman to them was Dolly Madison -- I guess they find Susan B. Anthony and Margaret Sanger too "radical"). I notice they omitted Martin Luther King, Jr. from their none-so-subtle attack on non-traditional American heroes -- guess it would hurt their pathetic little argument.
16) You believe that standardized tests are racist, but racial quotas and set-asides aren't.
OK, I'm not falling for this one -- we all went through this argument a decade ago with Hernstein and Murray's "The Bell Curve" (and the hundreds of essays refuting it, some which are contained in the Jacoby and Glauberman edited "The Bell Curve Debate") -- which unearthed long-discredited crackpot neo-eugenics theories of ethnic inferiority that some on the press initially found worthy of discussion.
It is unquestioned that at various times, cultural biases have been found in certain questions on the SATs and other standardized tests -- the College Board has had to throw out hundreds of questions over the years for this reason. I won't take the time to go into what the various reasonings behind them were.
"Quotas" and "set-asides" have been buzz words in the "reverse discrimination" scare tactics of the right-wing going going back to Reagan and before. The fact is that these were NEVER a regular occurrence. These were, in nearly every instance, punitive court-sponsored remedies that were put into place in extreme cases of racial discrimination in which the only reliable method of desegregating a particularly resistant school district or business entity was to place fixed numerical goals upon them. Such measures took place very rarely and only after evidence that repeated voluntary programs had proven ineffective (and/or ignored).
The vast majority of affirmative action plans involved voluntary attempts on the behalf of education or business groups to increase the diversity of their ranks, without any mandatory goals or interference of legal entities of any kind.
17) You believe that second-hand smoke is more dangerous than HIV.
Not worth dignifying -- next question (and, for the record, I love second hand smoke)
18 ) You believe Hillary Clinton is really a lady and Rosie O'Donnell is really funny.
Um, far as I know, Hillary Clinton is biologically female. Beyond that, damn right she's a "Lady" and a damn fierce one.
As far as Rosie -- cheap shot.
19) You believe that conservatives are racists, but that black people couldn't make it without your help.
....where to begin..... you know what? I won't...... myths and lies, myths and lies........
20) You believe the only reason socialism hasn't worked anywhere it's been tried is because the right people haven't been in charge.
It strikes me that Republicans are the ones these days who are advocating a brand of "socialism" -- the producers possess the political power and the means of distributing all the goods within the economy. And frankly, in 2004, and if I am reading the statement above correctly, I guess that the current administration is proof that such a system can "work" and exist (in ways the Russians never imagined) -- though not in terms of classic theoretical socialism, but in terms of oligarchy, where all the power (political, social and economic) is held in the hands of small ruling elite ..... and, yes, I know, I'm going to catch hell for saying that ......
21) You believe that posting the "Ten Commandments" in schools will hurt the children, but putting "Heather Has Two Mommies" or "Ask Alice" (on the internet) won't.
Not a question of whether the Ten Commandments do or don't hurt children (they probably don't -- any more than Barney and the Teletubbies hurt them..... never mind), but there's a little thing called the Establishment Clause of The First Amendment -- Separation of Church and State. Teach the Ten Commandments until you're blue in the face at home, but teachers in public school "shalt not," at least according to our founding fathers. And "Heather Has Two Mommies" is an utterly harmless little story of inclusion and acceptance -- it doesn't promote anything.
22) You called Vietnam Veterans "baby killers" but think that allowing a woman to suck her baby into a sink is a constitutionally protected right.
Such an artful turn of phrase -- it's almost like poetry....
23) You think sexual harassment is rampant, date rape pervasive, domestic violence common and Paula Jones is lying.
That's right ..... so suck me down a sink already!
24) You think trees have feelings, animals can conceptualize and the fetus is a blob of protoplasm.
Well .... I'm generally not drawn to trees for my emotional relationships (though I have an ex who was roughly as warm as a scotch pine), and generally speaking, "animals" are not my preferred intellectual sparring partners, but, sorry, by definition, a fetus IS a "blob of protoplasm." That's not such a bad thing -- some grow up to be very nice, if emotionally withholding, scotch pines......
25) You consider the Catholic bishops noble and idealistic when they oppose capital punishment and welfare cuts but dangerous fanatics trying to legislate their theology when they defend the right to life.
No, I pretty much consider most of them to be unrepentant pedophiles and dangerous homophobic hypocrites .... but thanks for asking....
See, liberals CAN be fun.........
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/23/03
re: A different point of view#3
Posted: 7/16/04 at 8:32amMargoChanning, will you marry me?
re: A different point of view#4
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:07amI would, but after that post, we'll have to do it Guantanamo Bay -- I'm going to be somebody's prison bitch, if Ashcroft has anything to say about it.....
Featured Actor Joined: 6/24/04
re: A different point of view#5
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:22am
Eloquent response Margo.
Don't worry about prison, I'm sure the people on this board will be there to bust you out.
Let's just hope your warden isn't someone like Ida Lupino in Women In Chains.
re: A different point of view#6
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:23amOr Agnes Moorehead in "Caged."
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
re: A different point of view#7
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:27amMargoChanning, I love you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
re: A different point of view#8
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:33am
A witty retort.
I personally take offense to your use of the terms "they" and "them" in your response to the posting of a chain e-mail that was no doubt written by one or two people attempting to use humor to ellicit a reaction.
The fact is that this particular satire obviously does not represent all of those people out there who align with the right side of the Congressional aisle. I would go so far as to say that you probably couldn't find 100 people in the country that agree with every sentiment expressed in this initial post.
Political humor will ALWAYS paint with a broad brush, because that is where satire gains the majority of it's humor. It's not intended to be a serious debate.
(This moderate doesn't get offended or feel the need to write an editorial when he reads a chain email about bible beating nutcases, because I know it's humor, only humor.)
We all hunger for the same things... Peace, prosperity, and love. The divide is on how to get there. It should not be an argument based on barbs and nastiness when the end game is such a wonderful thing.
I will always recommend against preaching equality and concern for fellow man in one half of a sentence while stereotyping and insulting in the other half. It really takes away from the message.
Both the pro and con of this thread are valid points to someone. We are all entitled to our beliefs. No one should be belittled for them.
re: a different point of view#9
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:55amoh man the idea of a rescue mounted by the board members? did anybody see blazing saddles? please, please, oh please, let me film any attempt at storming the gates at gitmo.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
Featured Actor Joined: 6/24/04
re: a different point of view#10
Posted: 7/16/04 at 9:56amLOL.......want to direct the rescue of Margo Papa??
re: a different point of view#11
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:03amI can see it now... It would be a lot like "Stripes" I think.
re: A different point of view#12
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:19am
This is where we completely disagree, CKeaton. Rush Limbaugh has somewhere between 20 and 30 mllion listeners daily. Michael Savage has over 10 million listeners. Millions watch Bill O'Reilly. Fox News, Ann Colter, Sean Hannity, Laura Ingraham all have tv and radio audiences in the millions. I have listened to them all and nothing -- and I mean NOTHING -- in this piece which you describe as mere "satire" is anywhere near as extreme, polemic, or hateful as what is broadcast as TRUTH by any of them on a daily basis (and what is believed to believed to be the truth by millions of their listeners around the country).
Have you ever listened to them on a regular basis? I have (the Corleone code of keeping one's enemies "closer") and I swear to you that most of the sentiments expressed in this piece are to the LEFT of statements they have made on the air. This is NOT satire, this is NOT humor -- have you read or heard some of the vile and unconscionable statements that have come out of the mouths of congressman and senators during the recent gay marriage debates? Invocations of the Bible and Old Testament prophesy being ignorantly spouted from the floor of the House and Senate? And I won't go into some of the repellant statements I have heard regarding AIDS and affirmative action and abortion and "gender roles" that have come out the mouths of some of the same elected officials.
Have you been following on a daily basis the unrellentingly nasty and mean-spirited barrage of hate and bigotry that's been coming from the "right side of the aisle" in the last few years. If you haven't, then you have no idea that this is NOT satire.
Do me a favor (I don't have the time) but poke around mediamatters.org or some of the other watchdog sites on the web and look for yourself. Trust me, it won't take long to find another 25 FAR more outrageous statements from major media figures and politicians of the right that put the little list that is the subject of this thread to shame:
http://mediamatters.org/
re: a different point of view#13
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:24amno, ck, stripes was ultimately successful. and that's the fact, jack.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
re: a different point of view#14
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:35am
Just for the record, I dislike, no loathe, Limbaugh.
I will spend some time on the site. Because I respect your opinions.
re: a different point of view#15
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:38am
How do you tell the difference between Democrats, Republicans, and Southerners?
Answer - Pose the following question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises the knife, and charges.
You are carrying a Glock 40, and you are an expert shot. You have mere
seconds before he reaches you and your family.
What do you do?
-----------------------------------------------------------------Democrat Answer:
Well, that's not enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed?
Have I ever done anythin! g to him that would inspire him to attack?
Could we run away?
What does my wife think?
What about the kids?
Could I possibly swing the gun like a club and knock the knife out of his hand?
What does the law say about this situation?
Does the Glock have appropriate safety built into it?
Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway, and what kind of message does this send to society and to my children?
Is it possible he'd be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely want to kill me, or would he be content just to wound me?
If I were to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was stabbing me?
Should I call 9-1-1?
Why is this street so deserted?
We need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a happier, healthier street that would discourage such behavior.
This is all so confusing! I need to debate this with some friends for a few days ! and try to come to a consensus.
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Republican Answer:
BANG!
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Southerner's Answer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! CLICK
'snap/slide/click'....(sounds of reloading).
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: a different point of view#16
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:39amckeaton - for this to be viewed as satire, it would have to have been written by someone with a liberal 'bent.' I honestly read it as written by someone who truly believes in the philosophies expressed - albeit, expressed with a fair amount of sarcasm. Sarcasm and satire are not the same thing.
re: a different point of view#17
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:43am
uh... garsh I feel dumb-ified. Thank goodness.
Other than correcting me, do you have something to add? Or is the act of arguing semantics pleasure enough?
I wholeheartedly apologize for misspeaking. My 800 on the verbal section of the SATs isn't worth anything anyway. It's a standardized test, after all.
Joined: 12/31/69
re: a different point of view#18
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:47amckeaton - Whoa, I wasn't 'correcting' your use of words, I was diagreeing with your interpretation of the intent. Sorry if that bothered you, and if it is because I misspoke, I am sorry.
re: a different point of view#19
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:54amahh, but, d, can you say with any certainty that you know the source for this? it could be an incredibly twisted bit of disinformation being promulgated by the kerry/shrum hate machine to cause people to look with a jaundiced eye towards those of us who wear the brown shirts, uh, i mean of course, us republicans. i demand a full investigation into the source of the "liberal 25" as they've come to be known. i see too many parallels between the stereotypical language used here and much of the "two americas" rhetoric being used on the stump by john effin' kerry and li'l johnny edwards. it would be just like the democratic smear mongers to crank out such a hate filled screed and attribute ownership of the ideas and words to the right wing (that fact that many of the beliefs are grounded in savage truth can be completely discounted as republicans like me have little use for the truth as such and will deny its very existence). now i expect to see a full and complete investigation starting with an fec inquiry followed by a justice department inquisition followed closely by a senate intelligence committee (man is it funny to say those words together) hearing. by god, we're gonna get to the bottom of who's been smearing who here!
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
Joined: 12/31/69
re: a different point of view#20
Posted: 7/16/04 at 10:57am
Papa - you are absolutely correct - and, NO, I wouldn't be surprised at that possibility. 'Trust no one' 
Videos
