"Age two.... no, age ten"

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/20/04 at 10:10pm

You know it's a bad State of the Union when he talks about Rhode Island.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/20/04 at 10:28pm

You know it's a bad state of the union when your arrogance is so great, you dare to build on last year's lies. His intolerance, indifference to suffering and the pain of poverty, and denial about the life/death reality of pre-emptive war -- a man who's never, NEVER even attended a military funeral, let alone served as a solider -- is obscene. Closing with reverence to so-called values -- while baldly encouraging MORE division, and more us vs them in extreme -- was a pandering low.

To those looking for critical blueprints for the days ahead: he was most outraged by what?! WHAT?! Steroids in sports. STEROIDS IN SPORTS. Get out your cups, jocks, and aim well. The Yellow Alert has a new meaning, and as we learned tonight, that's leaving many children behind, every day.

Updated On: 1/20/04 at 10:28 PM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/20/04 at 10:46pm

An AWOL Texas Air National Guard member who refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about his drug use, was arrested in Maine for DWI and whose driving record for Texas has been "lost," who shattered the record for largest annual deficit in US History and set the record for being president during the most bankruptcies during a 12 month period (yet who has no problem using 1.5 bil to support heterosexual marriages or 600-something to promote the rehabilitation of prisoners), yet he's the moral epicenter of the world. Clinton was a conscientious objecter to Vietnam (rather than "joining" ANG), got had an affair with his intern, yet he's the devil incarnate. Thank goodness for a daddy in politics and a brother who's the governor of Florida. We may have missed out on God's chosen one.

Why don't we just put the old separation of church and state out of its misery? It's obviously on its last leg, since even a discussion of foreign affairs turned into a didactic lecture on morals.... Christian morals, even though he then said we should respect every American "whether they have a cross, a Star of David or a.... uh.... crescent moon on their wall at home."

Oh how I long for the Ike and Mamie revival that Clark and Gert can bring in.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 2:48am

I am sorry, but the spittle is still coming out of my nose...

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 6:24am

Ya know, even though I basically knew what was coming, actually hearing him say the words has left me speechless.

Anyone But Bush, 2004.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 7:20am

I just hope that Clark makes the race (and I agree with whomever said earlier that he was very wise to sit out on Iowa); anyone else isn't going to stand much of a chance against the Good President.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 7:24am

After the predictably propaganda laden address (I know, so were Clinton's, I get what these things are about), it was less than uplifting to hear Pelosi and Tom D. offer mealy-mouthed, deer-in-the-headlights "responses." He was particulary weak, fearful of offending anyone with half a buttock on the fence. Not even mentioning Iraq! NOT A WORD! No wonder Dean has caught fire with his perpetual state of red-faced outrage. These outrage free Dems look as calm as they are. I expected Pelosi to start purring.

The cut-to shots of combustable Teddy Kennedy shaking his head during the speech said more about the disgust with the Bushies than any of the oh-so-carefully chosen words of the oh-so-nice Nancy and Tom.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 8:01am

I actually thought for a moment that Teddy was going to jump out of his seat and shout out "your lying!" Of course it wasn't the only thing he lied about during the address. He spent some time tooting his own horn about education. He didn't mention his proposal to freeze Teacher Quality State Grants which would leave 92,000 teachers with less training than called for in his No Child Left Behind Bill. He aslo neglected to say that he wants to cut all 48 million Youth Opportunity Grants. This is a major program by the Department of Labor that promotes academic and employment success.
Of course what turned my stomach most was his little speech about marriage and his constant referral to God. Not that I have anything against God or marriage. But someone please tell me when the seperation of church and state went out the window. I mean I seriously have to question if I want to continue to live in a country that wants to pass a constitutional admendment to discriminate against an enitre group of people.
And I think my jaw hit the floor when he brought up steroids. Steroids? Steroids?????? This is a national issue? How did that make it into the State of The Union address?
My favorite moment? When W. said "Parts of the Patriot Act are due to expire this year..." and the Dems cut him off with applause right there before he could finish his sentance. They did it once more when he was talking about tax cuts. I just wish they would have been a little more vocal.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 8:13am

Here's an interesting article I found addressing the State of the Union "by the numbers." 10,000 Iraqi civilians killed since the begining of the conflict. 10,000! When's the last time you heard that on the news? W. also has a lot of firsts to be proud of!

1st: First president to execute a federal prisoner in the past 40 years. Executions are typically ordered by separate states and not at federal level

1st: George W Bush became the first American president to ignore the Geneva Conventions by refusing to allow inspectors access to US-held prisoners of war

1st: This administration is on its way to becoming the first since 1929 (Herbert Hoover) to preside over an overall loss of jobs during its complete term in office

1st: Rank of the US worldwide in terms of greenhouse gas emissions per capita

1st: The record for the most bankruptcies filed in a single year (1.57 million) (2002)

1st: This year's deficit is on course to be the biggest in United States history

There's more, just click on the link below.
By the numbers.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 9:01am

Thank you, Erik, as always, for the facts.

I'm glad someone else fell on the floor when a once-a-year summation of major problems included steroid abuse. It's mind-numbing, but again, so was the pitiful response from Democrats to virtually everything. Even that prissy and preening Frist in his foot-stamping, pro-Boss mode (why do so many against same sex marriage strike me as men who might benefit from it?) seemed to find more fire in his gut than our Tom and Nancy.

Updated On: 1/21/04 at 09:01 AM

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 9:10am

And he is still saying "new-q-ler" Isn't there *anybody* in Washington skilled in eloqution?

[ckeaton]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 9:16am

I am full of love and hate for this board. I wish I could be ambivolent about some of it. I've come to click "off-topic" while peering from behind slightly parted fingers.

Much of what you all are citing as examples were well in process during the Clinton years. GW had to take the wheel of a car that was on it's way to the shop already.

America’s economy grew at 8.2% in the third quarter - the strongest rate in almost 20 years. Survey evidence on manufacturing orders shows the strongest picture in 20 years. Home construction continues to expand.

Financial markets reflect this optimism. The value of U.S. stock markets has increased by more than $2 trillion since the beginning of the 2003—increasing the value of many workers’ 401K plans and other investments.

But it's not all about money. It's not all about social programs. It's not all about any one issue. Your anger is so potent and focused. I can't understand why it's so concentrated. I didn't like Clinton as a leader, but I would've never posted such angry (and hateful) comments as I read here. Maybe your hostililty will be echoed by me in 2008 when a democrat is elected to the office.

I'm going back to the fabulous main board, and I can't come back here, because I absolutely can't stomach the negativity over here right now. Perhaps later I'll come back over to this side and see the personal attacks that have been tossed at me.

Be happy. Your life is really quite good. The fact that you are sitting there warm, posting your political differences on this board, is a blessing from God, Allah, Mother Nature, yourself or whatever deity (of lack thereof) that you believe in.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 9:44am

"I'm going back to the fabulous main board, and I can't come back here, because I absolutely can't stomach the negativity over here right now."

No more negative than the reviews posted on Kerry Butler, just a different performer in a different show in a different theatre.

Thanks, Erik, for the link.... The fact, however, that 54% of the nation believes that Bush was legitimately elected and that 53% still approve of the way Bush is handling his job worries me, though. This could turn into a repeat of the 2000 election.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 9:56am

I certainly appreciate optimism, and particularly, its 1st cousin pragmatism. But I alone shall be the judge of just how "good my life is," or the life of other Americans whose plight I personally witness. That is my prerogrative, AS an American. And as a God-worshiping citizen of planet earth. (My God, by the way, doesn't think I'm complaining here -- he thinks I'm praying in public for help. In my opinion, the one that counts, we need it.)

I think it's highly presumptuous, hiding behind your fingers or otherwise, to tell anyone how well they have it. It never dawns on such prognosticators, that within one man's "negativity" lie the seeds of another's solution. Which just might be a new prescription for healing a very troubled world.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 10:16am

Since there is a technilogical rift between the haves and the have nots even in our wonderful country, I am simply making a relatively safe assumption. My Master's thesis research is on a new age caste system created by technology. So forgive me for being overly cognizant of the social and societal implications of message board culture.

Your frequent participation in an online message board generally means that you can afford technology and the training to be a savvy user, or a great deal of coffee at an Internet cafe.

The question, beyond my garish presumptions... Do you think you are blessed to be living the life that you do? Maybe not. That could be where the anger comes from.

Apologies for this sub thread... If anything grates at me, it's judgement. People who pass judgement on other people are the lowest of the low. I realize that my assumptions could be considered a form of judgement no matter how right or wrong they many be.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 10:19am

Auggie! You leave Kerry Butler alone! She's an angel.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 10:22am

I thought that you were leaving!

[ckeaton]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 11:00am

Son... Did you chime in just to make me feel unwelcome here?

You know I'm a Leo, so I have to check back to see if I'm getting a reaction... I love the reaction... I need the reaction.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 11:23am

Nope! Just the opposite in fact. I personally like the political discussion and appreciate the varying viewpoints expressed. I was simply puzzled by your reappearance after your statement that you couldn't tolerate us any longer.

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 11:23am

First of all CK, I don't know if that post was directed to me, but could you please point out where I've been hateful? I don't think I've said anything hateful about W. I have been very critical of his job performance. And as an American that is my right and responsibility. I believe that the current economic "recovery" is very much a market recovery and mainly effecting the rich. For the average American the picture remains bleak. I also pride myself on the fact that I have been critical of Bush on MANY issues, not just focusing on one like you mention in your post. I don't know why you seem to take people being critical of Bush personally. Like I said, I don't think that I've posted anything hateful about the man. I certainly haven't been fond of the job he's been doing.
Again I have to wonder why Clinton keeps coming up. I don't know how many times I've had to say it but I DID NOT like Clinton either, and I am NOT a democrat. Updated On: 1/21/04 at 11:23 AM

[bwaylyric]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 11:50am

It seemed like there was one camera dedicated to Hillary Clinton last night. Did you see those stone-faced expressions? Fake smiles? And let's not get started on Nancy Pelosi. Did they really have to do those close-ups? Jimmy Kimmel pointed out something that happened as Nancy was speaking. There was a moment when she paused and did some flirtatious movement with her lips - right at the camera. Did anyone catch this?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 11:58am

ckeaton--I just want to know if you have the same stance on "negative comments" when they are directed at Democrats and/or liberals in other threads?

I ask because others cry when Bush or conservatism is attacked, but have no problem attacking liberal views or Democrats.

Updated On: 1/21/04 at 11:58 AM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 12:23pm

i was particularly pleased to see that no amount of applause was able to rouse charlie rangel from his slumber, that's my congressman!

the speech was vanilla. it wasn't meant to convert anybody. but i do miss karen hughes terribly. it would have been nice for him not to stick his finger in people's eyes so much, but he's been listening to everyone and their brother tear him down for months now and he got some back.

i was very interested in the way that nancy pelosi leaned forward and enunciated every syllable of the word together every time she said it as if to make sure that even those 3 year olds who'd managed to evade the sandman would understand that the democrats would work with everyone. i half expected her to wink. nice touch though having the female congrssional leader deliver the foreign policy half of the rebuttal.

i was so totally hoping for a scanners moment as uncle teddy grimaced and rolled his eyes. that was the first time in my memory that the opposition party went so far as to interrupt the president to applaud points knowing that they were contrary to his speech. anybody remember tip o'neill ever leading the charge during any of reagan's speeches? what about newt during clinton's? i think it says a lot about how bitter the climate is politically right now that it basically went without mention on most of the coverages almost as if it was expected and accepted. for better or for worse, the capitol and joint sessions like this have always been above the type of bickering that you hear in say britain's parliament.

alas...as political theatre goes, this was pretty lame. especially compared to howlin' howie's meltdown. now that was fun stuff!

[ErikJ972]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 12:27pm

How could I forget the shot of charlie rangel sleeping? Another one of my favorites from the evening.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 1/21/04 at 12:55pm

tommyboy - "And he is still saying 'new-q-ler' Isn't there *anybody* in Washington skilled in eloqution?"

It comes from eating all that bar-b-q