Autism

[cubanpab]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 10:11am

I thought it’d be nice to discuss something not related to politics for once! As someone who has an autistic sister-in-law myself, i'd love to hear what everyone's opinion is on the theory that autism may be caused by the vaccines we’re giving our children. here's an interesting article i ran across on CNN.com this morning:

http://www.cnn.com/2008/HEALTH/conditions/03/24/autism.vaccines/index.html

I also watched an HBO documentary on TV last night called "Autism: The Musical" (which was incredible by the way), and I was amazed by a fact presented during the films opening sequence. something along the lines of how in 1980 1 in every 10,000 kids had autism. Now its 1 in every 250? Updated On: 4/2/08 at 10:11 AM

[husk_charmer]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 10:51am

Wow. That's kinda fascinating.

How was "Autism: The Musical?" We don't get HBO, so I couldn't watch, but the title caught my attention.

[cubanpab]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 10:55am

it was an amazing little film. about a mom with an autistic child who opens up an after-school-type of center where she teaches other autistic kids songs in the hope to put on a musical at the end of the year.

it was quite moving. one of the young girls was very silly and goofy and playful, but as soon as they put her in front of a microphone this sweet and very pure voice came out of her. she was so focused. a very good singer actually.

i teared up several times.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:15am

it's actually 1 in 166

i saw preveiws for austim the musical. is it going to be on again or is it on on-demand?

i dont think autism is caused by vaccines, i think the vaccine kind of "wakes it up" but you already have it before the vaccine.
if i ever had my own kids, i'd be weary of vaccines for them because i have pdd-nos and my uncle has aspergers, both on the autism spectrum. although i dont plan to have my own kids anyways, i plan on adopting.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:20am

I am a behavior therapist and work strictly with kids highly effected by autism. As far as the vaccine theory goes, I think there is a connection of some kind. I don't think they necessarily CAUSE the autism, but I think for some kids it's a trigger for something that was already there. On of my kids was a typically developing 19 month old. I have seen video of him saying, "Hi daddy," to a video camera at Disney world. He was given a chicken pox vaccine and a week later, he regressed. Now he can only use words for things he wants. He seems completely unaware of things going on around him. The interesting thing about that family is that on the father's side, his parents have three grandchildren. They ALL have a severe form of autism. A child my friend works with was typically developing, got a series of vaccines one day, went home and slept 36 hours and woke up a different kid. Then I work with another child that exhibited symptoms from birth.

Autism aside, in America, we give our kids too many vaccines. What the hell does it matter if a kid gets the chicken pox? We also give them too many at a time. Infants die every year after getting vaccines. Their bodies can't handle that many at a time. Parents don't know that they can ask for them to be spaced out. There is actually a federal cap on how much vaccine companies have to pay out due to lawsuits. If your child goes blind because of a vaccine, you get $100,000. If they die, it's $250,000. That is a federal law. Amazing.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:27am

Mariska is saying it's 1 in 150 on the new commercials.

[cubanpab]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:29am

abba & jersey - you both make excellent points, what i meant to say wasnt that the vaccines cause it, but that there is a pre-existing condition which the vaccines may or may not trigger, or "wake up".

jersey... i am fascinated by your line of work and the stories you just shared. amazing stories really. my wife is just about to graduate from grad school, she studied child clinical psychology, and shes worked alot with autistic kids as well. just hearing her stories and seeing what shes learned amazes me.

something serious is going on here if it went from 1 in 10k to 1 in 200. why isnt this on the news every day?
Updated On: 4/2/08 at 11:29 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:35am

The Ride Together a wonderful memoir by the brother and sister of an autistic man. Paul Karasik is an alternative-style cartoonist and Judy Karasik is a poet. They alternate chapters and tell the story of growing up with their brother David, who is autistic. It's very moving and very unconventional, which is appropriate, given the subject matter.





The Ride Together: A Brother and Sister's Memoir of Autism in the Family

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:36am

wow that book sounds really neat.

[cubanpab]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:41am

thanks for sharing PJ

[SpellingBeeFan4Ever]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 12:44pm

Ok, I have to go out of my way to post in every thread containing the word Autisim. I, myself am autistic (I have aspergers) and would like to point out how happy it makes me to see more kids understanding it. I have had kids come up and ask me very serious questions, most of which I couldn't answer. None the less, I was glad they came to me. But unfortuannly there are still many jerks out there who feel autistim and aspergers syndrome is the same as retardation. Which is NOT! That is a completly false statement and anyone who says it is true is undoubtly full of bull****. Then they drag other people from beliving thier own opinions into belivingt thier FALSE bull****. I only wish more people understood how hard it is for kids and parents to deal with autisim. I had a kid tell me it's my dad's fault for not using a condom and my mom's for not getting an abortion. That was the dumbest and saddest **** I have EVER heard. I died a little inside.


I'm done with my rant about my dealing with autisim and aspergers.

[louisamayfoster]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 1:05pm

SpellingBeeFan ~ You're doing a very good thing sharing with others about Autism and Aspergers. You are helping us all to grow, and understand. Thanks.

[me2]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 1:13pm

I wish for kids with Aspergers (in the right situation) could communicate to fellow students about it. I've had Asperger kids--really nice kids--who get picked on by kids (with teachers fighting HARD on their side) just because the kids think they are choosing to be different.

When my sister learned that the flu shot has mercury in it, she refused it for my niece. Why are we injecting mercury in people? It makes no sense. When she refused it to her nurse (or maybe doctor), she didn't even know there was mercury in it.
Broadway Mouth: From the Mouth of Mary Martin: On the Writing and Selecting of Roles

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 1:41pm

The dad of one of my kids went to Costco where they were doing $10 flu shots. He walked up to the front of the line and asked if there was mercury in the shots. The nurse said there wasn't. He asked if there was thimerosal. She said, "Yes, but that's not the same thing." (It is.) So, he asked if it was true that when they disposed of any leftover vaccine containing thimerosal they had to treat it like a harmful poison. She wouldn't answer. There are mercury free vaccines out there, they just cost more to manufacture and they don't have a strong preservative. That's what the thimerosal is there for, as a preservative. They only use those mercury free shots for infants and the elderly and not in every case there. There are also suspicions of a link between mercury and alzheimers. Again, it's all still speculation at this point, but I made sure my Nana is well aware of what to ask for when she gets her flu shot.

[javero]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 2:59pm

This thread has been most informative. Thanks all of you for sharing your insights on this subject.

[shameless]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 3:17pm

Wow, I just passed that info about flu shots along to my parents. Thanks, Amber.

[sit&dither]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 3:48pm

It is an interesting and gripping article. And while the topic may be more gray than Dr. Offit at CHOP is quoted as stating, vaccine-related risk is an oft sensationalized problem.

Without breaking out all the gory details, I'm going to post excerpts from a prominent medical literature summary article (Sorry for the length):

"
PROVEN BENEFITS OF VACCINES — As discussed above, there is a lack of evidence for an association between vaccines and chronic disease. On the other hand, the benefits of vaccines are clear. As illustrated below, several infectious diseases that were once associated with significant morbidity and mortality have been almost completely eliminated through the development, distribution, and almost universal administration of protective vaccines:

Wild-strain poliomyelitis has been eliminated from the Western hemisphere. No case has been reported in the United States since 1979. The last known case in the Western hemisphere was reported in Peru in 1992. (See "Poliovirus vaccination").
The number of reported measles cases in the United States has fallen substantially since the early 1990s, when the uniform recommendation was made that all children, adolescents, and young adults without history of natural measles disease receive two doses of measles vaccine.

Between 1987 (when the Hib conjugate vaccine was introduced in the United States) and 2000, the number of invasive Hib cases in children younger than five years of age declined by >99 percent.

With the declining incidence of these once-common infectious diseases, parents of young children may no longer appreciate the potential severity or dire consequences of the illnesses. Parents who lack such appreciation may be willing to forego immunizations for their children, particularly if unproven risks (eg, autism/ASD) are highly publicized. When this occurs, immunization rates decline and outbreaks of infectious diseases, such as measles and pertussis, may occur with significant morbidity and mortality.

As an example, between 35 and 100 of every 100,000 patients with measles disease develop acute encephalitis, which has a mortality rate of 10 percent and causes neurologic damage in 25 percent of survivors. In addition to acute encephalitis, meningitis, subacute sclerosing panencephalitis, and acute disseminated encephalomyelitis have been reported. Even in uncomplicated cases of measles, as many as 50 percent of patients may have EEG changes.

SUMMARY AND CONCLUSIONS — Based upon the above discussion, several conclusions can be drawn:

The prevalence of autism and ASD appears to have increased over the last several decades. Much of this trend is accounted for by changes in case definition and increased awareness of autism. Whether or not the actual incidence of autism has increased is unclear.

Multiple large, well-designed epidemiologic studies and systematic reviews have found insufficient evidence to support an association between the MMR vaccine and autism. In its latest review, the Immunization Safety Review Committee of the IOM concludes that the evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between MMR vaccine and autism.

Similarly, well-designed epidemiologic studies have failed to find an association between vaccines and multiple sclerosis or type 1 diabetes mellitus.

The administration of childhood vaccines has led to a decline in the incidence of childhood diseases that can have severe sequelae. Withholding vaccines from a child because of a hypothetical risk places the child at risk for actual infection that may have actual sequelae.
"

The article, Autism and chronic disease: Little evidence for vaccines as a contributing factor, by Jan E Drutz, MD, can be emailed to you if you would like to see the full thing with references.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 4:21pm

this is a very extreem case of what vaccines can do, but this is the little boy of a lady on another message board i go to. his name is jackson... i was waiting to post this untill i had asked her if it was ok to share his story with all of you, and she said it was.

http://www.jacksonpresleydiamond.com/

[sesot]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 5:36pm

I am a pediatric Occupational Therapist and I work with many children on the Autism Spectrum. I don't think the vaccines directly cause Autism. I think the children that regress after a vaccine, had a genetic predisposition to Autism and whatever is in the vaccines, created some type of chemical/"allergic" response that impacts the brain. I have worked with several families that have excellent records of their child that show a "typically developing"child then a major change- regression within days or 1-2 weeks after a vaccine, most commonly the MMR.
I agree that part of the reason the number of diagnosed cases of Autism has increased is related to increased awareness and improved diagnostic criteria; but that still doesn't account for all of the increase. The United States gives more vaccinations to infants and toddlers than any other country in the World. The US also has the highest incidence of Autism in the World. In many other countries the vaccines that are received are spread out over a longer period of time, allowing for the child's immune system to better develop. It is very difficult in the US to find a doctor to agree to spread out the vaccines, and wait to have the MMR until the child is over 2 years of age or to have it seperated. Most doctors who say they won't seperate the MMR is because it is too expensive. I think the health of a child should have more value than the cost of an injection. I took a course about alternative therapies and they mentioned that many doctors in the US actually get a bonus if a certain number of their patients receive their vaccines in the US standardly recommended time frames. We just need to educate parents more about rights and risks. I think many vaccines are very important, but feel strongly that children should only receive 1 at a time and allow their immune system to recover/build strength for at least 6 months before getting another one. I don't understand why doctors object so much to spreading them out more and waiting longer before getting the first vaccine. The other thing families should know is absolutely don't allow your child to get any vaccine if they are sick even the slightest bit or have been within 3-4 weeks before the injection; their immune system will be weaker.Parents can interview doctors before the baby is born and ask them if they will work with them to wait/spread out the vaccines.
Again, I don't think vaccines cause Autism, but there are many reported cases that show a direct correlation to the injection and a change in behavior and skills. There are however many children diagnosed with Autism, where signs are present from birth. I believe the genetic component is very strong, much more than the vaccine thing. I hope research can figure out what the genetic link is to work towards a cure.
Updated On: 4/2/08 at 05:36 PM

[WiCkEd BaCcHaE]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 8:36pm

Even though I have two younger siblings with autism, I personally have no idea/opinion about what causes it, vaccines or anything else. My sister had many various health problems when she was born, whereas my brother was very healthy. In fact, my brother has 'low level of functioning' autism, compared to my sister who has a 'high-level of functioning' autism ('high' meaning she can function much better than my brother can, in social situations). They were each disgnosed at different times in their life as well.

I don't know that vaccines are not related to autism but I do believe doctors don't go to school for nothing. If there were a connection, the governement would fund and support more research since it costs more to educate an autistic child than a 'normal' one.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 9:04pm

It does cost more to educate a child on the autism spectrum than a typical one; however, pharmaceutical companies don't care about education costs. The truth is, they do not know. They aren't in a hurry to change what they are doing because of this. Research is being done, but not quickly enough. They are trying to find a genetic link to autism. At the same time, some parents are fighting that reasearch because they know it will lead to pregnancy terminations. It's all a big cluster that's getting worse and worse.

And the first family DID win a case against a vaccine company because they claimed te vaccine caused their child's autism. That was a federal case.

[cubanpab]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 9:13pm

this is such a fascinating thread... i especially appreciate info being posted by jerseygirl, sesot and wicked!

[SpellingBeeFan4Ever]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 9:30pm

My wish for this world, is for the teens to be less insulting and more understanding. I'm sick of all the people using the word retarded. I can't stand it. I get called special. If you would like a list of what I have to deal with, PM me. I am not posting everything I have had said to me. I just wish all the bashing could stop. Because half of these kids feel bad about themselves so they pick on unfortunate others. Unfortunate people, like me. I went to Great America, and I got a dissability pass. People wanted me to get them in front of the lines. Because it was the last time I'd ever see my friends from my middle school, I helped them out. But even my enimies asked for help. I told them to "**** off, you never liked me before" I just want people to understand what it's like to be autistic. It's not easy. It's harder then half of the kids got it. My parents wonder why I don't do good in school. I can't focus on what I don't like. That comes with aspergers. I can't be in 5th period study hall or 7th period English due to some of these kids. They insult me so much. They call me Frodo. They call me the "retarded midget pencil stabber."

If anyone has any asperger questions, PM me.

[son_of_a_gunn_25]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:12pm

Jerseygirl what are your thoughts on the number and quantity of manmade chemicals that we put into our bodies through food? I know diet affects with autism. I also just read a study linking lower levels of Omega 3 Fatty Acids in breast milk to autism.

A little background on my experience... I've worked at an inclusive summer camp the past 3 summers and provide mostly one to one support to kids with disabilities each week. The majority have autism spectrum disorders.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 4/2/08 at 11:41pm

Unfortunately, if you send your children to public school, they MUST BE vaccinated or they're not ALLOWED in school.

I don't know if there really is an increase in autism or any other special needs conditions. We know so much more than we did in 1980; medical technology provides information we could not identify otherwise; research has increased; diagnoses are more precise; classifications have evolved; and early intervention services are now widely available.

My brother-in-law had Asperger's. He died last year at the age of 53. My in-laws refused to accept that Steven had special needs when he was growing up in the 1950s and 1960s. And so they ignored doctors and educators, which is a shame because the quality of Steven's short life could have been so much richer.