Bush wants 1.5 billion to "encourage marriage..." — Page 2

well now, mrsb, are you feeling any better after that rant or did it just get you all wound up? are ya ready to defend you views, your sweeping generalizations and your unsupported assertions? good, because try as I might to let this go, something just ate at me inside as I read the venomous bile you spewed at ck, whether or not he deserved it (sorry, ck, but I sometimes have to concur with the other side of the aisle).

ready? strapped in tight? good! because this compassionate, evolved and reasonably intelligent republican would like to rebut your pusillanimous pap.

that’s point one, kiddo, the warped idea that anyone who identifies themselves as republican is already beneath contempt as is evident from your condescending law school attitude (oh and btw, I hope you spell check your papers better than you did this rant otherwise you’ll be spending a lot more time in law school than you might have planned). that’s like saying that all democrats want higher taxes, a single payer health system, racial quotas and slavery reparations. some might, but I doubt that you could say that all do.

moving right along then, please try to keep up.

“[y]our party decries ‘special interest rights’ as a way to keep society from giving marginalized groups the basic rights they are guaranteed by the [c]onstitution (before the [b]ill of [r]ights was gutted in the name of ‘safety.’).”

ok, this statement doesn’t even make any sense. either we’re for or against special interests, but in this statement we decry them and use them at the same time…does this make us omnipotent? pick a side of the argument or don’t use words you don’t understand. and I think that if you talk to anyone you’ll find that the general concensus is that the patriot act took away rights from all americans not just your so-called “marginalized” groups. I mean geez, is your liberal guilt such that you must avoid representing all americans to play to your “interest groups” even when doing so would have allowed you to attack the right?

now is all christianity bad? because that seems to be what you’re saying here. I understand your anger towards mcdonald’s, they’re not the best citizen on the corporate block, but you know what? no one has a gun to anyone’s head forcing them to eat there. and don’t tell me it’s cheap because I was able to get a lot more food for a lot less money when I was living in harlem at the associated or down at kennedy fried chicken. and if people cannot help but go to mcdonald’s since that’s all they see on tv, well, you know what? I’m glad that they do, and I am glad that they are at higher risk for heart disease, etc. because they’re too simple minded to breed anyway. it’s humanity’s answer to thinning the herd. we’ve got no lions (well a few) so something has to be done to prevent us from completely overpopulating the earth and so we get mcdonald’s. that was sarcasm, you can look it up.

at last count the total number of dead in iraq, which is the current conflict, and this includes u.s. and Iraqis stands at 9,000. now unless you’re saying that anyone who woulkd engage in any war of any kind is a child, in which case you’d still be 1,000 short, I must assume that you got your mathematical training in the nyc schools. buy a calculator and read more than one news source, hun.

I’m sure there was a brilliant diatribe on the west wing once, there have been many. unfortunately you seem to have not absorbed any of sorkin’s brilliance, sadly. in the future I suggest that you either hire an editor, or merely yell at the screen rather than expose your adolescent mind set to the rest of the class.

I’ve said before that the word marriage should be scrubbed out of the law books. it’s a religious term that should have no legal weight.

rush Limbaugh is and was a talented blowhard.

are you suggesting that we limit the availability of heterosexual marriage?

I’m just gonna giggle a bit longer about the whole marriage thing and then pray for tort reform before you graduate and pass the bar sometime in the spring of 2027 so you won’t have a chance to flood the system with yet another frivolous law suit based on victimology (hey I just made up a word!).

next time you try to defend muslims, please keep in mind that mohammed was a prophet and that muslims pray to allah which is the arabic word for god and that the god they worship is the same god worshipped by both christians and jews. the god of abraham. that’s strike two on religion and that’s generous.

gray davis got crucified? are there pictures?

it’s pitiful to bring gw’s kids into this. what precisely have they done that’s such clear evidence of a failure to be well adjusted? oh, wait, a couple 19 year olds, drank. I am shocked and amazed that this could happen in this day and age. throw their parents in irons immediately. going after the kids? even the mob leaves out kids. tsk tsk

you really need to be seeing someone to help you with this persecution complex, lady.

and for the record, the phrase is stop being part of the problem and be a part of the solution. jeez, or would you just be happy with change for change’s sake without any eye on solving the problems? therapy, hun, it’ll help.

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Forgive me, I'm normally much more levelheaded. I just felt very put upon by her rant. I'm glad you took the opportunity, papa, to echo many of my thoughts... that I was too flustered to put to the screen. Though, I hate the fact that you assert that I may have "deserved it". I'm not that partisan that I can't respect a good post.

We are all in the same boat. "Why can't we all get along"

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Is there a special bonus for spousal abuse?

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Oh good grief--I need a drink after all of that baby mama drama up in here!

It's a waste of money--our education is in desperate need of that money, especially when you look at how poorly the arts are funded in schools.

If this is Bush's way of avoiding the "need" for a Constitutional Amendment to make marriage for men and women only, I respect that attempt at a political compromise.

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That was my seconding papalovesmambo at the possibility. Sort of like Clinton signing Don't Ask, Don't Tell to avoid harsher antigay military measures.

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ain't THAT the truth! It is extremely ironic that MORE men and women have been kicked out than ever before---that is until we went to war.

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Oh misogyny in action.

Ckeaton- you have leftist opinions? Let me clarify some things for you.

I am a woman of Asian descent. Asian women are not hairy. But seeing as you would probably not want to be near a woman nor an asian, you can't be expected to know that.

"Birkenstocks?" I suppose that is shorthand in GOP land for lesbians. If this is how you support same sex unions and is an example of your "leftist" leanings, I want to know: do you call yourself a compassionate conservative?

"The LEFTIST Wing"? Do you call Ellen "Ellen Degenerate"? Is this a witticism you picked up watching FOX news?

And I wouldn't worry about eating the Big Mac if I were you- one needs a heart before one can worry about heart disease.

Ah, PappaLovesMisogyny- where to start?

First, I'll apologize for my spelling and grammatical errors. You might want to learn to capitalize the first word in each sentence- unless you're trying to be e.e.cummings. Pot, this is kettle.

Let's address your icon- something showing sexualized images of war. That speaks a lot for you.

Do all women scare you or just those with opinions? I bet you hate Hillary but love Laura- who actually killed someone with a car. If Hillary had done that it would be the lead on all the conservative shows 24/7.

You don't like it being pointed out that the twins have been in trouble. Part of W's rationale behind the waste of so much money to promote marriage is because he feels two parent families are the best way to make sure that children turn out well. It is not just the presence of two heterosexual parents that turns out good kids- it is active parenting. And those girls were given HUGE breaks because they are white and their parents are powerful. Do you honestly think that an inner city kid who forged a prescription for narcotics or had a fake id had been caught it would be brushed under the rug? If you do, you are even more dangerously out of touch with reality than your posts would seem to indicate. And they indicate someone who hates women and needs therapy himself.

I wrote my post between classes- and sloppy errors were made. I own that fully. But your comments about my chances at getting out of school and being poorly educated are way off base. I was graduated with honors from both high school and undergrad. I already have several offers from firms. Not powerful "money" firms but firms that work to help people who do not have the resources or education to help themselves.

Let's talk about education for a minute. The $1.5 billion potentially squandered to promote marriage could be put to such good use by being put toward education. But hey, why educate the masses to think when they might realize the lies being shoved down their throats and take action?

As for you deciding I am a victim- I am not. I have put myself through school. I earned my place- I was not there for affirmative action. My grandparents and mother were interred here in the United States during World War II because they were Japanese. My grandmother died because they would not provide adequate medical coverage to "enemies of the American people." No one really likes to talk about that chapter of history.

I do not say that looking for pity. But I will say those events definitely played a part in helping me decide I wanted to help people who are considered "outsiders" to not be crushed by the system. I am proud of my family and what they not only endured but overcame. As have many Americans.

I am glad you find it laughable that people have ideals.

And one last thing in closing- CKeaton: you say "we're all in the same boat"- true but the people who have been shoved below the decks might like a chance at not being considered second class citizens forever.

Hmmmm.

A Brand new screen name. Right on the heels of someone sending me an obscenity laden, threatening e-mail.

Maladjusted meljuda-

Read my post again. Where did I ask for special treatment? My family received no reparation nor would I ask for it. But I will fight to see other people are not treated that way.

I am sorry you are racist and anti-woman.

As for your last sentence- it makes no sense at all.

But I guess you were too busy creating a new name to put much thought into content. (not as in a feeling of contentment.)

And if you are going to send e-mails to me, learn how to spell the racial slurs you used correctly.

Feel better now?

The idea that a discussion about the relative value of a "pro-marriage" piece of legislation can provoke obscenity-laden, threatening email is more than disturbing.

Exceprted below are letters in the NY Times this a.m., which say much. And they come from Plainview and Stony Brooke, NY; Indiana, San Franciso. These are not just Manhattan voices, for what it's worth.

"...I used to bea registered Republican because I believed that the party stood for limiting government to its proper constitutional functions. Bush's latest proposal for the Fed. Gov. to helop couples sustain healthy marriages is just the latest example of the Republican Party's abandonment of its principles..."

"...You can't save a marriage without help for the heart, body, and mind first. I find it appalling that many American families can't afford to take their children for a regular checkup, but with this proposal they will be able to get training in marriage skills, all to please the religious right and its agenda..."

"...Strong marriages require that workers have livable incomes, economic security, and sufficient lesure time to build the strong interpersonal relationships that families require..."

"...If the program participants marry and after a while divorce, will taxpayers get their money back?..."

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dman microsoft word and bill gates for making it so hard to emulate, ol' e.e. i try to avoid caps at all costs, mrs b, since i feel that no letter should be anymore important than any other letter.

i am amazed that you were able to pick up so quickly on my latent misogyny as i was sure that i'd hidden it so well. my wife thanks you for alerting her to this as she's suspected something all along. my closet racism will surely be making am appearance soon as my korean-american in-laws have been unable to fully erase the redness from my neck despite repeated washings.

as far as hillary goes, while i disagree with her on policy as a matter of routine almost without thinking (again sarcasm, it can be your friend) i do think that she's the best pure politician and probably the brightest mind in all of the democratic party. the fact that she's not in the running says loads about the confidence of the democratic leadership council wing of the party's hopes for success in 2004. she's been such a hawk on iraq and foreign affairs because she's betting that things are going to work out and that by the time 2008 rolls around that she'll have picked up the pieces from the dean fiasco and be carrying her party into 2008 with the strong message that they've been lacking since bubba passed so gracefully into his roll as ex-president.

laura bush was involved in a car accident in 1963, when she was 17, that resulted in the death of the driver of the other car when he was thrown from his open jeep. now, i think that the statute of limitations might have run out on that, but if i'm mistaken please let me know. unless of course that you're making the point that this incident proves her as a craven killer with the conscience of mussolini on dust.

as far as the activites of teenage girls, the forged prescription was done by jeb's daughter, noelle. a fake id? are you serious? those forgers! i suggest that the secret service take the lead on a treasury department investigation of fake ids among the affluent. i had a fake id. most of the kids i grew up with had fake ids. my nephews even now have fake ids, as do their friends, most of whom are african-american since they live in a predominantly minority housing complex. amazingly enough, even in this day and age of the mighty, mighty ashcroft and his fleet of black helicopters, after talking to them, ive found that most kids they know who get busted with fake ids still get them taken away with a warning depending on what they were using them for. but i'm sure that you've extensive data to prove otherwise, don't you?

it's easy isn't it when someone takes issue with you to whip out the misogynist card? i mean how exactly can someone fight against that? it's like a drunk who's refused another drink when he's obviously intoxicated screaming racism. regardless of whether it's ever proven that any act took place, the stench of the accusation is enough to poison public opinion. it must be nice to have such a weapon at your disposal. it's amazing to me that in this den of liberal sentiment that i've never been censored before for my radical misogyny. how lucky they are that you were able to open their eyes to this. now i don't see that you pointed out any rational for my hatred of women, other than the fact that i took you to task for a poorly written and sloppily thought out message which you seem to have admitted. oh, wait, it was my use of the "hun" and "lady' and "kiddo." sorry, it's the southern influence in me. not that i'm from the south, but all of my classes at the nathan b. forrest society i guess let some of it rub off (sarcasm, see above mention). if my use of such references offended you, then i most heartily apologize as i meant no offense, that's just how i talk. and the icon...it's been there for a day or two because i giggled at the title, "the nude girl nazis of prison camp 1034." yep, i see how that makes me hate women. you know what, i bet the whole misogyny thing is unconscoious and i don't even know how much i hate women! oh, god, where's the haldol?

i never claimed that you were a victim, i claimed that once you'd been given a license to practice law that you'd attempt to use the legal system to remedy wrongs against those less fortunate in our society. i felt that you'd file frivolous lawsuits intended to win compensation for those society has put upon all their lives...you know: victims. but i understand how that nuance slipped past you.

"[b]ut I will say those events definitely played a part in helping me decide I wanted to help people who are considered 'outsiders' to not be crushed by the system."

right. victims.

anyway, it was more the superior condescending tone of your first missive that cranked me up. the all or nothing attitude that you find so abhorent in those on the right seems to have found a home in you. i'm all for partisanship and difference of opinion, but when you demagogue those who differ with you, you make it practically impossible to make any progress. are there misogynistic bigots on the right? of course. are there mysiogynistic bigots on the left? you bet. can we make any progress as a people if we can't put some of those differences aside long enough to make compromises that benefit the whole population? nope.

if you'd bothered to read any of the previous posts, you'd have seen that i already dismissed this $1.5 billion on marriage programs as an indefinsible position. but don't let facts stand in the way of your vitriol, mrs b, swing for the fences.

again i point out to those who are so worried about this actually happening, look back at bush's campaign promises from 2000 and see how many of those actually happened.

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Updated On: 1/15/04 at 10:53 AM

Bravo Papa!
dman right!

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Kumbaya my @ss.

I have yet to read screaming and whining from anyone but MrsB. In multiple threads. I'm going to compliment you iflitif... because until now you've seemed pretty levelheaded. Seems as if you've taken offense too. Sorry.

Don't use my metaphors without citing their source, or I'll have to demand royalties.

"it's easy to say things online in a way you'd NEVER think of saying them face to face"

Nope... I'd say them face to face too.

I refuse to post anything else to this thread, because I think both sides have exposed their feelings. NEXT!!

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CK...

Thanks!!! Maybe you can point them out. I want to the competition to be fair!

And just for the record, I never called the post stupid. It just bothered my that the poster assumed (at least that's how it sounded in the original post) that MsB somehow manipulated the system to get more than her fair share because she was an Asian female. Which goes along with the thinking that some people have that minorities in this country have it better off because they are entitled to all of these special privelages. Which is completely not the case.
But to make an attempt to get back on topic, it does seem to me that W. has lost whatever grip he had on reality. It seems like this and his talk about going to the moon/mars is distancing people who would have been likely to vote for him. The marriage proposal isn't enough to satisfy the religious right, yet it's going to upset conservatives with it's government spending on private matters. And it's certainly not going to gain any votes with liberals. And the moon issue...well...that's just crazy.
Not that I have confidence that any of this will be remembered come election time. Especially not with Katie Couric telling me every morning how great the economy is doing and just how unbeatable Bush is.

Updated On: 1/15/04 at 01:17 PM