Expulsion for gay comments?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:31pm

The discussion of the neo-nazi twins touched on freedom of speech. So does this.
Article.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:35pm

Isn't his punishment only justified if his actions were a form of harassment or discrimination? Sure his comments were hateful, but considering they were posted on a message board autonomous from the university, I don't see they can do anything about it.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 02:35 PM

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:36pm

As much as I hate to say it, I think his First Amendment rights were infringed upon. By no means am I supporting what he said, mind you. But we can't take away one idiot's opinion, lest we all get that right taken away. The First Amendment is both a blesing and a curse in that way.
And I don't think the school should have gotten involved. This bonehead wasn't espousing his opinion on campus or even on a school message board, so I fail to see why the hell it's the school's business.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:37pm

good for that Uni.

After a hearing, the Office of Judicial Affairs found Miner guilty of violating the University Code, which prohibits harassment or discrimination based on sexual orientation, among other groups.

My company also has this sort code, and it even goes father than this. A paper? please, if he said this about an African-American, Hispanic, or Asian.....he would probably be thrown out of school. Same should apply

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:38pm

I believe they've encountered this situation in the private business sector, where employees have been disciplined or fired for their postings on the internet. I don't know what the legal outcome of them was, though.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:39pm

What I want to know is, how did the school find out?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:42pm

I actually think this is a violation of his constitutional rights. And, do not see how statements made to an organization not affiliated with the school can be the basis for discipline.

"Ryan Miner, 19, of Hagerstown, Md., was sanctioned by Duquesne after posting his view in The Facebook, an online directory that is not related to the university."

It is not against the law to be hateful. Arguably, these are his misguided personal/religious beliefs, and he is entitled to them. If his statements were not made in something related to the school, or were not threatening, then I think that the school over-stepped its bounds.

Tolerance is a two-way street.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:43pm

The title of this thread really scared the bejesus out of me DG. WWSD?

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:44pm

um, my company has the same policy, if I go on regional TV, and espouse comments against blacks, gays, etc, I can STILL face punishment, because......I represent my company.
My customers could see that and decide not to buy from me.

Students deciding on colleges could not choose this Uni for what he did......it could still affect the Uni....and that's why it does not matter......if he does it on campus or not.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 02:44 PM

[ally_kay_on_broadway]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:44pm

i don't agree what was written by the student, but i do think that free speech should be fair- no matter how horrific or wrong it sounds.

as long as the kid isn't giving verbal threats or anything, i don't see why he was kicked out. It was a matter of personal opinion, nothing violent or threatening.

I don't want to get kicked off the boards for being accused of 'hating gay people' because i DON'T. I just don't like the hypocrisy that is 'free speech'

someone in canada got kicked out of a highschool for writing a story about a 'school shooting'- the teacher told the students to write about something scary- and the kid does- and gets kicked out of school...

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:47pm

First of all, he's a child, and foolish enough to post his inflammatory opinion on a public website. Of course, his speech is protected, but the University has special rules about conduct and just like any other rule, if he breaks it, he must face the consequences. He knew that there would almost certainly be repercussion for his actions, much the same as would happen to gay students who staged a kiss-in for example. He runs a similar risk.

His 1st Amendment rights allow him to say what he wants to say, and the school also has a right to censure him for his actions, whether he wrote in on a web page or in the school paper. And had he used a racial epithet, nobody would come to his defense. But since homophobia has been sanctioned through the misinterpretation of a couple of verses in The Bible, there is debate.

I don't think he should have been punished or should be expelled. He'll probably get what he deserves down the line without any help from the university. The universe has a way of settling these things--just ask Roy Cohn.

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:48pm

Part of my problem is that it feels like anyone can get nailed for saying anything, anywhere. I mean, if I made a similar post on my LiveJournal, could my school take action against me? I don't think that's right. It's my damn business and nobody else's.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:56pm

Elph - I understand what you're saying about your company, but I'm curious about something. Your company pays you to be there, and that makes you one of their representatives; whereas this student pays the university for their services - which doesn't necessarily mean that he represents them. Does this distinction matter?

[cookie2]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:56pm

Telling this guy to "write a paper" is just so silly and wrong. I agree that the University has NO place taking action in this matter, as his comments were just an expression of his opinion on a public forum not associated with the Uni itself. Threating to expel someone for expressing an unpopular opinion is exactly what is wrong with "the system" (whatever that means to you). Let the fool stay in school, maybe in a campus environment that has a little more diversity than he may be used to he will have the opportunity to learn a little something about the world we live in. Otherwise, sending him back where he came from will just teach him more intolerance.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:57pm

A similar issue is being argued at my school about the university infringing upon free speech. The campus TV network was shut down by the chancellor because one show made racist, sexist and homophobic jokes. People are questioning whether freedom of speech is really allowed when it makes other members of the university feel unsafe (more that just "subhuman"- this show joked about lynching black people on the Quad).

I think the school does have some sort of jurisdiction over Facebook because, like PalJoey said, these students are representing their school. You have to use your school-issued email address to register, you're categorized by what school you go to, and your school has the right to object to being included on Facebook in the first place. It's not like he went on his own personal webpage and made homophobic comments, the Facebook is inherently connected with the university.

And he's risking being expelled because he won't accept the (mild) punishment from the university, so it's his own fault if he gets kicked out.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 02:57 PM

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 2:59pm

And had he used a racial epithet, nobody would come to his defense.

I don't know if I would agree with that. If he had posted racial slurs about Asians, I would be upset but I'd acknowledge his right to his views.

I suppose it depends on the exact content of what he posted. If he said something to the tune of, "I hate gay people and I'm gonna kill 'em all!" then surely that can interpreted as harassment. But with a statement like, "Gay people are subhuman" it's hard to argue whether that falls under the university's code against harassment and discrimination.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:01pm

"You have to use your school-issued email address to register, you're categorized by what school you go to, and your school has the right to object to being included on Facebook in the first place. It's not like he went on his own personal webpage and made homophobic comments, the Facebook is inherently connected with the university."

I didn't know this - so this site is specifically for college students, and the name of the college must be included?

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:05pm

Yes, it's a network specifically created for college students and the name of the college is used in connection with you. You register for Facebook as a student of your college. I'm looking at this student's profile now (his picture is Bush) and he is listed by his name and his school.

Updated On: 10/27/05 at 03:05 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:06pm

I'm not talking about YOU, Blue Wizard, I'm talking about the public at large. I'm sure many people support this student because they feel that not only does he have a right, he IS right. That's my point.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:08pm

The use of the school name does seem to put it into a specific category.

[shira467]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:13pm

I don't think they have any right to ask him to write a paper or to expel him.

He's an ass, no damn question. And I am angered by the statement. However, he has a right to say what he wants during his free time on a website that has no affiliation with his school.

The school accepted him, yes. So he represents the school. But every school has asses like this, he is just more vocal.

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:17pm

I know lildogs, I was merely using myself as an example.

I don't know if the university's jurisdiction should include Facebook. Although it's true you're categorized by school and require a valid college/uni email address to register, the organization has no affiliation with any educational institution. I don't believe any college or university has even officially acknowledged Facebook as related to their school. That makes it particularly hard for Duquesne to argue that those message boards are under their wing.

Their University Code "prohibits harassment or discrimination" but doesn't mention any limits, so I think it comes down to whether the young man's comments are directly damaging or threatening. The lynching comments are certainly a form of harassment, but I don't know about Miner's slurs.

[shira467]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:18pm

Right. He made hateful comments. But unless he said he would cause them harm...I mean, there are boundaries.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:24pm

so ally, by your idea, I can walk through my company HQ in Michigan, making anti-black comments, simply because it's my opinion (WHICH it is NOT)

Or do that in a forum where maybe not on company property, still can influence peoples view of my company, thus hurting business? That is exactly why these rules of behavior are in company and college manifestos.

And I am sure by signing to become a student you sign to obey the rules. He did not, hence he should be gone.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:25pm

See, my university categorizes hateful comments as "bias-related incidents" (stupid name, I know) and students do face punishment for them. Even if it's not a direct threat, it promotes discrimination, which is against the university's code of conduct. At my school, had he written these statements even on the whiteboard on his door, he would be punished.