Expulsion for gay comments?- Page 2

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:38pm

Interesting, orange.

As you may remember, your college is my alma mater. My sophomore year, a kid wrote an editorial to the D.O. that was basically one long hate-in on the homosexuals. Needless to say the drama department went NUTS. Many of us wrote letters in response and the paper actually printed two full pages of them. It was pretty wild. I think that did more good for the university as a whole than any kind of punishment for the kid.

[ally_kay_on_broadway]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:45pm

elphaba- no- i'm assuming that with free speech, you also have responsibilities go with them. This student obviously had no scruples- but i still don't think the univeristy should punish him for saying that.

In the Canada bill of rights, we have free speech- but can get nailed if we do not use it responsibly. I have no idea what happens in the US

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:56pm

Yeah, the D.O has had 2 full pages of letters to the editor over this recent incident as well. And now many of the letters coming in are arguments to other letters that were previously printed. But the whole incident has turned the school on it's head and everyone has their own opinion about whether or not it's a good thing.

And just so you know, the LGBT support on campus has grown far beyond the drama department, so I don't think anyone would get away with trying to write crap like that these days.

ally, there's freedom of speech but there's enough court cases based on this to in no way narrow down all the stimulations and allowances that could apply in this case.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 3:59pm

When I was there, the GLBSA barely existed. My friend Mike took it over (I acted as First Lady...it was a ceremonial position) and helped it and it's budget grow big-time. Now, after The LA Scientology Visitor's Center, S.U. is the gayest place on earth.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:10pm

There are 3 student groups now: the LGBT Resource Center, Pride Union and Outrage- which is new and focuses mainly on politics. And I have to agree about SU- on National Coming Out Day, they made a human rainbow across the Quad. We now have an annual drag show, a Big Gay Dance, gender-blind floors of dorms, a gay fraternity, they're working on a lesbian sorority...I can't even imagine what it's like for these other universities to still be struggling to establish a gay-straight alliance on campus.

[robbiej]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:15pm

Are you KIDDING me?????

When we did 'Blue Jeans Day' on Coming Out Day, it was a SCANDAL! And this was '95!

I love it. I remember going to Faegans and being REALLY out just to see what would happen. I ended up becoming friends with all the bouncers and bartenders and never paid for a drink my senior year. I was like their exotic pet. Many of them had never met a gay person before me.

SH*T...did I jack this thread? Sorry!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:20pm

Robbie - you're expelled!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:39pm

Just curious.

If this was a private, Christian School, and the person posting was advocating for gay rights, and the Christian School found that such beliefs were contrary to their religious values, would you still support the school taking action?


EDIT - Tenants - DOH! Values makes a bit more sense. Updated On: 10/27/05 at 04:39 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:47pm

I looked at the website for this school and it is a private Catholic university, with very strong religious overtones.

[Plum]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 4:57pm

You guys need a copy of Words That Wound. I didn't agree with it on all points, but it had some interesting ideas about the constitutional aspects of hate speech.

Speech is never just speech- it's also an action. Sometimes the line between the two gets confusing, as with flag burning. Then you have to decide where the speech ends and the action begins, and whether the former supercedes the latter, making the overall behavior constitutionally protected.

So, hate speech. When is it merely speech, and when is it an action- a harrassment or threat? For example, if a man walks by a black family in a diner and drops a card that says "You have just been paid a visit by the Ku Klux Klan" on their table, is that protected speech? Or does the threatening aspect of it matter more? This isn't as simple as citing the First Amendment and saying it's all okay.
Updated On: 10/27/05 at 04:57 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 5:07pm

Well, since I didn't read what he posted and if the worst thing he said was that homos were "subhuman," I don't think that's threatening, whereas leaving a calling card for a family of strangers that implies danger is something else. If the poster had named names or appeared at a LGBT rally and caused problems, it would be different. Yes, it's not nice to say things like what this student posted. The man leaving a card is making an implied threat, not making a comment about his beliefs, otherwise, he could just wear a t-shirt.

I just think that people on the left need to be vigilant but not absolute about what "the enemy" is doing. Not everything said in hate is hate speech.

[jacobtsf]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 5:46pm

My college has a required meeting about facebook during orientation. It is actually a wonderful tool but can easily be used impropperly. The dean at my school said that we couldn't be judged by anything we say or do on facebook, but the things we say or do can affect her decision making on other matters.
An Example- If BOB is an 18 member of facebook and has joined 15 groups with names like "I've been drunk at school" or "Alcohol Lovers" and has posted pictures of him holding beer bottles the college can not punnish him. The dean said that for all she knew there was apple juice in the bottles and the student was just trying to be cool joining the groups. However, if BOB has to go to a hearing for being under the influence of alcohol and he states that he has never had a drink before the dean will think twice before believing him.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 6:46pm

DGrant, I don't think so. If the Uni has a cody of conduct, and you agree to it.....then you must abide by it, or find somewhere else to go to school.

[cmleidi]

Posted: 10/27/05 at 7:05pm

If he used the university's computers, bandwidth or any university software, they have the right to expel him because they could be sued for anything he may write. If he does it on his own, but the code of conduct prohibits it, they have a right to expel him. Since he affiliated himself with the university on this website, they can expel him because it gives the impression that they sanctioned his remarks (in the same way that DVD commentaries always have that obligatory line about the remarks of the participants don't reflect the company's views).

We have freedom of speech within limits. I don't think the forefathers of this country envisioned the first amendment being used to protect religious rhetoric or hate speech. It was mainly for speaking out against the government.