It's Called A Bowler Hat

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It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:11pm

We are living in a scientificly progressive world, for sure.

But would you say we are living in a socially progressive society and culutre? Or are we moving backwards?

Discuss.

"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:18pm

Sounds like Priest got an english essay assigned today...

My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...

No.

I was listening to PAcific Overtures in my car.

As the show is mainly about the West's scientific and materialistic effect on Japan, I began to wonder how scientifically progressive and socially progressive corrolate.

Do they have to happen simultaneously?

Or can scientific progress move forward while social progress moves in the opposite direction?

"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:22pm

In my opinion, I would say that yes, we are moving forward technologically and scientifically. But in most cases, we are falling backwards on society and culture. For the average, lazy American won't get out much due to all of the crap that he/she buys nowadays. All of the new technology is spoiling the new generations of kids who are kept inside watching tv/playing video games and not experiencing what life has to offer through its culture.

Then again, there are those that DO work hard and the ones that DO create these advances in science and technology. They are the ones that I commend.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:22pm

As I'm still trying to process the cause and effect of our recent election, I may not be in the right frame of mind to answer that.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:22pm

Yes, I was just about to compliment you on your thread title.

And I'd like to think Priest wouldn't come to the board and ask others to do his homework.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:28pm

Wow. An intelligent question that requires thought! Thank you Priest! Brain-stimulating questions are a rare entity these days. I can't answer right now because I want to actually think about it. I just wanted to commend you on this thought-provoking thread.

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:30pm

That depends on your definition of forward and backward. Maybe we're just going sideways. :)

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:30pm

I know he wouldn't. I was just teasing him. We have had people try that in the past though. :-P I have to agree. One of my minors is digital media design. The possibilities it can bring in education, business, and personal use is amazing, but it needs a counter balance. (I am not a big fan of entertainment media though. It's the biggest problem.)

My avatar is a reminder to myself. I need lots of reminders...

#10

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:32pm

I'm actually studying this in Anthropology.

We are in a scientific age where new discoveries are being made every day and humankind's "intelligence" is growing.
However because of the growing "intelligence" we have created a world that runs on autopilot, leaving the actual species at a crossroads. They can embrace the science(and yet fall backwards socially) or grow socially(while they fall backwards scientificly).

It is possible to grow in both at the same time but the human mind was formed to find the simplest solution to a problem. If we override that programming(which is what most of the world's greatest scientists do) we are able to excel both scientificly and socially.

Sorry for the rambling.

David walked into the valley With a stone clutched in his hand He was only a boy But he knew someone must take a stand There will always be a valley Always mountains one must scale There will always be perilous waters Which someone must sail -Into the Fire Scarlet Pimpernel

#11

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:36pm

You make perfect sense, jacobtsf. I agree with you completely. Too bad a lot of the world is too lazy to actually make that move to 'override the programming.'

#12

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:39pm

Anthropology is such a GREAT subject, and we (as mankind) are just beginning to learn about it.

#13

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/3/05 at 9:41pm

Yup. Cell phone = backwards social progression.

If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.

#14

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 12:43am

Scientific progress is always two-sided

#15

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 12:49am

In my not-really-educated opinion, I think that we are scientifically progressive (smaller, faster, lighter, blinkier) and socially progressive in that there are so many different social issues that many people are concerned about and fight for/against today... we're certainly aware of more things, but in some cases we try our best to shove it back into very very dark places.

But I guess social progressive-ness isn't necessarily fighting for an issue if it's against something, which soooo many political campaigns seem to centered on nowadays, but I won't go there.

I don't know, I feel like I'm not adding anything intellectual to the conversation... I tried?

#16

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:01am

Just like in "A Bowler Hat" technological development has come at the cost of culture.

The number "Next" in Pacific Overtures breaks my heart, because Japan has become everything it strove not to be.

"Welcome to Japan" is one of the most heartbreaking lines ever to be said on a Broadway stage.

I find it terrible that you can travel around the world, experiencing different cultures, yet you can walk down the main streets in New York, London, Sydney, Wellington, Warsaw and Cairo and find a McDonalds, and most likely a Starbucks.

Each country is just becoming another Western urbanised sprawl...

And that doesn't take into account the social repercussions of teachnology. As has been stated, children spend more time inside on computers and video games than they do outside. Adults are becoming so involved in their 40 hour weeks that looking after their children is enough of a bother, let alone having a social life.

It's all a downward spiral...

#17

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:10am

Nippon: The Floating Kingdom. An island empire which for centuries has lived in perfect peace, undisturbed by intruders from across the sea. There was a time when foreigners were welcome here, but they took advantage of our friendship. Two hundred and fifty years ago we drove them out, by sacred decree of the great Shogun Tokugawa and ordered them never again to set foot on our ancestral soil. From then until this day, in the month of July 1853, there has been nothing to threaten the serene and changeless cycle of our days.

Then the West comes.
Scientific progress is given.

Nippon: The Floating Kingdom. There was a time when foreigners were not welcome here. But that was long ago. One hundred and fifty years. Welcome to Japan.

Reading that opening monologue and the closing one right next to each other really proves your point, paradox.

Three of the most heartbreaking words ever on a B'way stage.

It really makes one think.

"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

#18

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:18am

Has technological development come at the cost of culture? Or does each culture adapt technology to its own customs? Is the culture of Louisiana the same as New York? Texas? North Dakota?Tokyo? Isn't it socially progressive for people on the internet to interact with those from other nations? Or should we revert to the slant-eyed, buck-toothed, yellow-skinned Hirohito caricatures of WWII made possible by the ignorance of that time?

Is the idea of social progress limited to the area of your own backyard? Or can we include the rest of the globe?

#19

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:24am

I think that socially and culturally we are not even moving backwards so much as we are just ruining things. I think that present day society SHOULD move backwards. I've often wondered why people are so opposed to saying things like "thank you" and "please."

I do a lot of work with children and while I will say the majority of people have learned to accept differences, with that they have lost all the manners and other things which come with life- or should. You'd be shocked at the amount of parents who just don't care. I don't think that culture is necessarily lost because of technology.

You would think that the kind of technology we have now, things like the internet and more developed media forms, would help to PRESERVE culture and that people would be able to keep their cultures more easily with the assistance of being able to look these things up.

And hang on, when did you win the discus?

#20

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 1:27am

Yawper:

I started this thread for a discussion on this issue, and without anyone becoming hostile.

I do not think that social progress should be limited by your own backyard, but neither are Sondheim and Weidman saying that in PO.

But the thrusting of the West's own progress so abruptly on their nation in the middle of the sea forever put a permanent mark on Japan's own culture so that it lost some of its own uniqueness.

No one was saying that Matthew Perry was wrong for going there.
No one is saying that he did everything perfectly, either.

I just find it interesting to find how other people corralte social and scientific progression.

"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."

The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.

#21

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 2:49am

one of the greatest time progression songs ever written:

A Bowler Hat
KAYAMA
(picking up a derby)
It's called a bowler hat.
I have no wife.
The swallow flying through the sky
Is not as swift as I
Am, flying through my life.
You pour the milk before the tea.
The Dutch ambassador is no fool.
I must remember that.

* * *

I wear a bowler hat.
They send me wine.
The house is far too grand.
I've bought a new umbrella stand.
Today I visited the church beside the shrine.
I'm learning English from a book.
Most exciting.
It's called a bowler hat.

* * *

(bringing out a watch)
It's called a pocket watch.
I have a wife.
No eagle flies against the sky
As eagerly as I
Have flown against my life.
One smokes American cigars.
The Dutch ambassador was most rude.
I will remember that.

* * *

I wind my pocket watch.
We serve white wine.
The house is far too small.
I killed a spider on the wall.
One of the servants thought it was a lucky sign.
I read Spinoza every day.
Formidable.
Where is my bowler hat?

* * *

(putting a monocle to his eye)
It's called a monocle.
I've left my wife.
No bird exploring in the sky
Explores as well as I
The corners of my life.
One must keep moving with the times.
The Dutch ambassador is a fool.
He wears a bowler hat.

* * *

(putting on a pair of glasses)
They call them spectacles.
I drink much wine.
I have a house up in the hills
I've hired British architects to redesign.
One must accomodate the times
As one lives them.
One must remember that.

* * *

(holding up a tailcoat)
It's called a cutaway …

#22

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 2:55am

Never before have lyrics so aptly catalogued the decay of a culture in one man.

#23

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 3:11am

There is no hostility here - just questions for consideration.

My view:

Science is a tool of society. It is neither inherently good nor bad, but lends itself to efficiency. It's how a society USES its technology that makes the difference.

--------

With regard to PO:

You might want to read a little about the history of the Edo Period. Japan had a feudal system in place and, while relatively peaceful, it was not a Pacific paradise. The usual societal struggles were taking place there just as everywhere. There was also limited trade with the West and China, so they were not totally isolated.

Edo Period

#24

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 3:19am

While technology is marvelous and all the jazz (I'm dependent on computers, iPod, Palm, etc...)it's killing me at the same time. It's impossible to get a break nowadays. However, my issues are minimal. I recently read an article about how people who say they are on vacation are checking their emails and cell messages. The author commented "That's not vacation. That's telecommuting"

Oddly enough, I think I read than in a United Airlines magazine last month, as I was being hurdled around the country for work.

Continuing on, I taught preschool last year, and kids are being exposed to WAY too many electronic things at too early an age, and will not learn to problem solve and build things. They won't know their times tables because they won't need to think -- they'll just have computers.

Also, I am fed up with my generation (sorry to all the 18-22 year olds here). But where have manners and etiquette gone? Would it kill someone to open a door for another person every now and then?

In answer to the original question, I think that people are becoming overprotected, and certainly dumbed down thanks to everything available. Why should we think when we don't have to? We have computers to do everything for us!

Okay, end rant.

Deet: Shira, I Love You!

#25

re: It's Called A Bowler Hat

Posted: 1/4/05 at 3:55am

Japan may have been feudal, the may have been having societal struggles, but they still had the right to their self-imposed isolations.

The Maori's of New Zealand have often been touted as one of the most violent and bloodthirsty cultures (also one of the most exotic and beautiful) to exist, but they did not deserve the colonisation done by Britain. The Maori's had the intelligence to create a treaty with the British (The Treaty of Waitangi) but it was the British who broke it, and enflamed the situation, resulting in the Maori wars. The British created a cycle of poverty for the Maori that many are just breaking out of...

The Aborigines of Australia had been living in isolation for at least 40000 years before James Cook arrived in 1770. Their British "colonisers" invaded, stole their land and routinely killed them for sport. Tens of thousands of Aborigines were killed by common Western Illnesses (the common cold and influenza being particularly devastating). For fun, many white settlers would poison a drinking hole, or herd a group of Aborigines to a cliff face, and give them the choice of jumping or being shot.

These are just two other nations...

It makes one wonder WHO the Barbarians really are...

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