Lord Byron -- First Cultural Icon and Ancestor of Madonna, et. al?

Posted: 10/23/05 at 10:52am

Was George Gordon Byron, 1788-1824, the first "pop" icon?

As he is quoted of saying, "I awoke one morning and found myself famous." The basis for this celebrity was the publication of his narrative poem Childe Harold's Pilgrimage. There was also the fact that in this age of surface propriety (Cantos 1 & II of Childe Harold were first published on March 10, 1812) Lord Byron's personal life was a sensation, in and of itself--extravagant living, duplicities, debts, love affairs, marriage and separation, bisexuality, and talk of incest. Lord Byron died an early death at the age of 36, from illness, while he was overseas aiding the fight for Greek independence from Turkish rule.


A quick overview of aspects of Byron's life appear to be a blueprint for the pop icons of the invtervening centuries:

* rebellion
* distaste for society and social institutions
* self-imposed exile
* disrespect for rank and privilege
* possessing great talent
* reinventing onself to hide an unsavoury past
* great passion
* self-destructive
* unsuccessful in love

Would you say that Byron was the first in a long line of Western cultural icons?

[There is an interesting biographic flim on Bryon currently airing on BBC America. Not totally accurate, as is usual for these types of films, still well made, and adult in its treatment of his sensational life.]


Updated On: 10/23/05 at 10:52 AM

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:04am

That must make Percy and Mary part of the original 'Frat Pack'.

We taped that show last night, and hope to get it seen in the next day or two. What are the innaccuracies you refer to, Jose?

[Plum]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:16am

Benjamin Franklin was an international celebrity- if by international we mean the Western world- way before Byron.

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:18am

Agreed on the "Frat Pack," DG, very much one of the first group of public cultural rebels. Good point.

Three inaccuracies: Byron met Shelley in Swizterland, not in London; and Byron was obsessed with Caroline Lamb and pursued her endlessly, not the other way around as portrayed in this film. [Authors of dramatic works have a liscense to arrange things in order to make them more dramatic. One thing we often forget that just because it happened that way in real life, it doesn't mean it is dramatic.] Also, Byron's intimate relationship with Thomas Moore, his future biographer, was eliminated from the film.

The film is adult, and excellent, with fine acting by some familiar faces.

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:31am

Plum, I'm referencing "cultural" celebrity.

Byron was already being talked about because of the manner in which he led his life amid the then social conventions. He was catapaulted to a higher level of being "celebrated" by his overnight success as a poet.

Franklin was in a diffent situation, and was not cultural celebrity as it were, but rather a scientific and political one. Now had you mentioned Michaelangelo or Carravagio, we might have some fact checking to do, and you just might be on to something.

Since you're in London, you might want to visit

*16 Holles Street, where Byron was born (it's North of Oxford Street leading to Cavendish Square)

*4 Bennet Street, St. James', where he lodged in 1813

*The Albany, on Picadilly, where he rented in 1814

*Look for 13 Picadilly Terrace [extant], where he lived with his wife Annabelle Millebanke beginning in 1815

I wish I were there to vist those sites with you!



Updated On: 10/23/05 at 11:31 AM

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:37am

The sad thing from your list is 'possessing great talent'. It used to be that there actually WAS some reason for a person to have come to the attention of the general public - their work. We have devolved into an era where that is not necessarily the case.

[Plum]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 11:55am

Franklin was a bit of a cultural celebrity, in France at least. How else do you explain their fascination with how he dressed and did (or didn't do) his hair? :)

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:10pm

I think some of these apply to Madonna while others do not exactly:

* rebellion--rock n roll, baby!

* distaste for society and social institutions--yes, when regarding bigotry and oppression, and wickedness towards others and self

* self-imposed exile--not really. She does has to keep herself protected from stalkers, crazy fans, and paparazzi

* disrespect for rank and privilege--this prob applies, but not sure how exactly

* possessing great talent--I know some would argue this about M, but she IS a great artist

* reinventing onself to hide an unsavoury past--there may have been a bit of this, but she def likes to evolve and play with images/characters on an artistic level. And she's big on revealing truth, including unsavoury past.

* great passion--oh yeah

* self-destructive--I think M would agree that she has made some mistakes and she does say that she feels some of her choices earlier in her career were immature/selfish. However, M is prob the most adjusted star vs her level of stardom--no drugs, not an alcoholic, very healthy. Very smart.

* unsuccessful in love--she would prob agree to this until Guy, of course

I will offer this thought: Madonna is in a group of artists throughout history who has chosen to provoke thought and are regarded as highly controversial and with disdain. Her death will be the beginning of a trend towards acknowledging the greatness of her career as has been the case for artists since the beginning of time.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:14pm

Franklin was most proud of having been a publisher during his life. He also believed in reincarnation, after Socrates and Plato (like a man wears many coats, a soul wears many lives).

I am more for Percy Shelley, who believed in LOVE, LOVE, LOVE.

Love is like understanding
That grows bright
Gazing on many truths
'Tis like thy light
Imagination...

from Shelley's Epipsychidion

Byron was too dark, destructive and kind of evil or menacing for me, though I know he is included as one of the great three English Romantic poets, Byron, Shelley and Keats...
Updated On: 10/23/05 at 12:14 PM

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:21pm

Plum, who cares about the French and their tastes anyway? I mean they they invented the culottes, for gosh sake's.

Disgusting piece of clothing worn by some males, even today. Lasting sure, but tastefull? Undoubtedly, NO.

Byron, on the other hand, was the rock star of his generation, and it was his taste that mattered, not society's.


Updated On: 10/23/05 at 12:21 PM

[Plum]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:36pm

I'm not trying to make a comparison between the two- just pointing out that one comes chronologically before the other. :)

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:42pm

Jrby-

Must you bring Madonna into every conversation?

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:46pm

Diva - Madonna is named in the thread title.

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:48pm

I kept thinking the mother of Jesus...


She was around LONG before that vouging skag

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:49pm

Speaking of dogs and divas, here is what Byron wrote of his favorite...

"NEAR this spot
Are deposited the Remains
of one
Who possessed Beauty
Without Vanity,
Strength without Insolence,
Courage without Ferocity,
And all the Virtues of Man
Without his Vices.
This Praise, which would be unmeaning flattery
If inscribed over Human Ashes,
Is but a just tribute to the Memory of
"Boatswain," a Dog
Who was born at Newfoundland,
May, 1803,
And died at Newstead Abbey
Nov. 18, 1808."

Boatswain was his faithful dog.

"Epitah to a dog" is one of Byron's best known works

Lo, that someone as wretched as I would warrant such a tribute, with meaning, upon my death

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 12:59pm

It's "voguing" and unless you have coined a new term, I think you mean either "slag" or "skank".

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:03pm

Byron might just be considered to be the first to "Vogue," as it were. He was known to strike poses in public for the bevy of beauties, female and male, who eyed his every move.

Quite an attention getter that Byron.
Updated On: 10/23/05 at 01:03 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:03pm

No I meant skag.

See, you learned a new word today!

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:09pm

And, I suppose that if I looked it up in the dictionary, it would be accompanied by a picture of you?

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:17pm

"skag" is a variation of "scag" which is a slag term for heroin.

Now, Byron was not addicted to herion. He did, however, possess an attraction to laudanum, which is a variation of opium.

It is suspected that Byron was bi-polar.
Updated On: 10/23/05 at 01:17 PM

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:18pm

I'm not the one who has to get fully loaded to do a show.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:22pm

ooooook--that was SUCH a good jab. Considering, I won't be drinking until after the performance, maybe that's not the kind of loaded I am alluding to! :P

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:23pm

Guys, this thread is about Byron, and pop celebrity.

How about you take your personal conversation offline?

[TheatreDiva90016]

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:30pm

Almost as good of a jab as, " I suppose that if I looked it up in the dictionary, it would be accompanied by a picture of you?"

Geez, I haven't heard that one since grade school

Posted: 10/23/05 at 1:34pm

Diva and JRB, I'm going to force you two boys to sit down and read aloud a Byron poem to one another over a pint.