Michelangelo Signorile on Why Foley Should Have Been OUTED- Page 2

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:02pm

Of course we don't all have to think and vote the same. Who said that? But let them come out and vote against Gay rights, not use their vote to protect their closeted selves.

We can disagree on this, Rob. I find it despicable for closeted gays to run for office and vote against gay rights, you find it perfectly acceptable. It is a matter of opinion.

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:06pm

i don't find it acceptable, but i don't find that it is a reason to out someone. that seems like a slippery slope to condone such a behavior because a politician does not vote the way someone else wants them to.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:11pm

What IS a good reason for outing then?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:12pm

If a straight politician had been secretly divorced, and then he voted for a law making divorce illegal, that secret divorce would be legitimate news.

No?

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:13pm

frankly i cannot think of one. i don't think someone's sexuality should be used as a weapon against them.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:23pm

But that's exactly what the Repubs did to the 'mos in the last election. And if you don't think anyone should ever be outed under any circumstance, that's your business.

I see what you mean in that outing is inherently unpleasant, but this isn't some ordinary man who's minding his own business either. Mark and Jim both went out of their way to present a false image and backed legislation that diminished who THEY ARE.

And many think (me too) that the only way to change the minds of those who oppose us is to come out. You'll find it harder to hate fags when you find out your son is one. Coming out saves lives, whether you like it or not.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:28pm

Robb, it seems that you are of the opinion that it would be killing someone's career if they are outed. I may be wrong, but aren't most politicians who have been outed in one way or another still re-elected, or if not it has nothing to do with their being gay? I am sure most are a lot happier, at any rate.

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:31pm

Studds was re-elected and so has Barney Frank. Christine Quinn is also an out politician and it didn't hurt her career--in fact, it's just beginning.

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:32pm

"Coming out saves lives, whether you like it or not."

unless the person commits suicide, huh?

"I am sure most are a lot happier, at any rate."

based on?

also, i didn't state that outing kills someone's career. but people, as in the florida case, will attempt to use it as a weapon to try and derail someone's career.

Updated On: 10/13/06 at 04:32 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:32pm

Let's make the issue hypocrisy and not sex.

So if that straight politician had been secretly divorced, and then he voted for a law making divorce illegal, the HYPOCRISY of that secret divorce would be legitimate news.

We're talking in a politician, not a milkman or an actor.

And so if that politician is secretly homosexual and voting to curb civil rights for lesbians and gay men, the hypocrisy of his secret life is news.

The issue is hypocrisy, not sex, not witch hunts, not McCarthyism.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:36pm

Rob, ask any out person if they are happier being out than they were when they were closeted and I am sure most, if not all will say they are happier being out.

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:46pm

sueleen, research that theory and let me know if that holds true for politicians. it might, but i do not know that to be a fact.

coming out was the best thing i ever did. but i did it myself, when i was ready, when i had the support system in place to come out safely and in MY own best interest. i would hate to have that power taken away from me and used as a weapon against me.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:48pm

RobbO. You just said a magical phrase.

A weapon used against me.
Unlike actors, where the speculation really should just remain that, a politician who is in the closet and actively campaigning against any homosexual interest is using YOUR orientation as a weapon against you and as cover for their own inability to deal.
That is wrong. Absolutely wrong. If outing them with ACTUAL knowledge that they are gay (I'm talking about more than innuendo or hearsay) will halt that, then it needs to be done.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 4:55pm

The media KNEW Foley was gay. The House Republican leadership KNEW he was being inappropriate with pages.

If Foley had been outed, his behavior would have been halted, the individual pages he approached would nto have been gone through that, the integrity of the page system would have remained unbreached--and the Republican party would not be suffering as it has this week.

Hmmm...on second thought...

RobbO--YOU'RE ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:07pm

paljoey, once again you like to jump from a to c without considering b. i know how pesky facts like to get in the way of your arguments, but...

if the media knew foley was coming on to pages, then they had a responsibilty to report the issue - whether or not he was gay.

but they didn't did they?

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:10pm

and in the florida case:

"During the gubernatorial primary Crist's opponent for the GOP nomination, Tom Gallagher, continually assailed Crist as "soft on homosexuals".

Although both candidates oppose same-sex marriage and gay adoption Crist would "allow" civil unions in Florida. Gallagher maintained there was no difference between the two.

In public opinion polls Crist leads Davis 53 - 43. Davis also opposes same-sex marriage."

so, if crist now loses because of the outing, florida could lose someone who while not perfect on gay issues sounds better than his opponent.

florida case

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:19pm

I don't know how I feel about all this, but since when has the media ever dared point a finger at political hypocrisy? This is more of a b!tch hunt if anything. Gay or not, these are the last people I want representing me. Supporting the invasion of Iraq or the US supported Israeli invasion of Lebanon seem like much more relevant election issues right now.

You won’t hear one candidate speaking out against what took place in Lebanon in this country, no sir. Where were these "get out of Iraq" democrats four years ago? Apparently, preaching democracy or pushing faith-based initiatives is just a song and dance.

Passing laws, inhibiting or promoting inequality is something every politician gay or straight should be ashamed of and held accountable for. It is appalling it is 2006 and we have politicians in both parties denying people civil liberties. It is not debatable at ALL that I do not have the same rights as my own brother. I will never understand how they can sit back and call the US a free country.

I cannot see how anyone will win by outing anyone. At the very least, we can win some seats. So maybe the end justifies the means. However, both parties will still push for invasions of foreign nations and keep on disregarding the growing minorities in this country.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:27pm

I did NOT say the media knew he was coming on to pages. I said they knew he was gay. It was the Republican House leadership that knew he was coming on to pages.

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:29pm

exactly. and that supports your argument how?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:32pm

Huh?

[RobbO]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:32pm

"The media KNEW Foley was gay. The House Republican leadership KNEW he was being inappropriate with pages.

If Foley had been outed, his behavior would have been halted, the individual pages he approached would nto have been gone through that, the integrity of the page system would have remained unbreached--and the Republican party would not be suffering as it has this week."

[mejusthavingfun]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:39pm

If this scandal does not show how lacking in integrity our media is, I do not know what will. In every single media outlet, the story was spun according to the political point of view of their choosing. I have yet to read one article that has not been slanted or tainted by hearsay. Where are the facts? Apparently everyone knew something, (and by everyone I mean Rep, Dems, the Media and the victims/parents.) lot's of finger pointing though.

I wonder if I should really blame George Bush, Bill Clinton or just blame the entire media in this country for failing us all?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:39pm

Exactly.

And the Florida case is fascinating. In the primary, Crist's opponent tried to out him and the primary voters rallied behind Crist.

It's unclear, in this post-Foley age, how the voters will go.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/13/06 at 5:58pm

Now we're hearing that Bush might have known about Foley and the pages as early as September 2004.

Wouldn't THAT be a kick in the rubber parts!
Bush suddenly started avoiding Foley in Sept. 2004, after months of using Foley to help Bush's re-election campaign. What did Bush find out?

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/14/06 at 11:50am

Well, isn't this a coincidence? Gerry Studds has passed away.
RIP. And yes, I DO believe he was happier being out.
NYT