Miriam Margolyes trashes 'Mama Mia' (and discusses Dominic Cooper's member)- Page 2

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 8:55am

I'm not finding anything she says objectionable. Deadpan and edgy, but not objectionable; certainly not racist or anti-American.

The woman is obviously a genius onstage/screen and off. The kind of actor who could challenge Truman Capote's thesis that all great actors are dumb.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 9:03am

Again, for the record, to be explicitly clear, I'm not saying that Miriam is, quote, "racist" nor "anti-American". I am saying that the way she talks about and addresses black people in certain appearances is a bit cringe worthy. And it's clearly a generational and class thing. Watching her act with naked astonishment at the fact that a black hip-hop star is actually doing good in the world and then watching her (an older white woman) correct his grammar is perhaps not the best approach one could take. And, yes, I know she corrects EVERYONE's grammar.

As for the other bit, I saw several appearances (not the Graham Norton ones) in which she made broad, sweeping statements about Americans and their lack of education and culture that were clearly aimed to pander to the studio and tv audiences in Britain. Whether she actually believes that stuff, I don't know. I was just thought it was a shame that such a smart, talented woman was saying such obviously silly things. That's all.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 11:01am

HorseTears, we both agree that she's not revealing a genuine superior or nasty attitude.

Where we disagree, I think, is that your read is that her age and class make her not realize that she's pushing the envelope and or inducing cringes.

My read is that her wisdom and intelligence make her absolutely aware of what she's doing and inform her playfulness; in a very funny and effective way (which I'm not sure you are fully picking up on). The same edgy m.o. that informs all of her humor (which I get that you get)).

If she might induce cringes with her comments about race and America in some who aren't getting where she's coming from, she probably cares as little about that as she does about anyone taking offense from her comments about Winona Ryder.

Updated On: 3/21/14 at 11:01 AM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 11:14am

Well, we can agree to appreciate Miriam, warts and all. Love her unconditionally! Apologies for all my typos. I've been pulling an all-nighter for a big work project. Exhausted.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 12:52pm

I agree fully with Henrik on this one. I don't think any of it is due to her age or class (and again, compared to so many actors she's not all that ancient so if one did find her racist--and I know nobody here is actually saying that--I don't think her age would justify it at all, whereas, as unpopular opinion as this may be, someone 30 maybe even 20 years older than her I could see that justification a bit.) It's all part of her thing and she knows exactly what she's saying and means it to come off as funny but also mildly shocking. That doesn't mean it is or not (I could do without her going on about using a black voice or mentioning a man is black in tones that suggests she's watched Mandingo too many times, myself, but...)

I'm probably more immune to Anti-Americanism being in Canada and I'll be careful not to say anything more on the subject (Although I honestly have met in my travels the random American who asked if we had TV sets and lived in igloos. But there are dumb people here too :P When I spent half a year working in Dublin, a weird sorta "Americana-revival" was all the rage--there were a bunch of pop song hits by B*Witched and similar acts which all played on wild west/cowboy camp and many of my co-workers at a fairly lower class Tesco's honestly seemed to think that a good chunk of "America" as they always call it there is still the Wild West.)

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 1:25pm

(Although I honestly have met in my travels the random American who asked if we had TV sets and lived in igloos.

But you do rub noses, don't you?

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 1:45pm

Yes, it's so cold here that that's the only way we kiss. It makes oral sex, as well, rather interesting.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 8:48pm

Since I no longer live in LA, I haven't seen Miriam in over 10 years. And I will add that at a certain age, my grandfather started making racially inappropriate remarks he had never made before; it turned out he was in the early stages of Alzheimer's.

But when I did see Miriam regularly, she could be shockingly and hysterically candid, but I don't remember her ever saying anything I found offensive.

I suspect her current persona is "dotty old lady who says whatever comes into her head"--because she knows full well it makes her an excellent chat-show guest.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/21/14 at 9:22pm

Gaveston--I don't doubt anything you said, but those black comments I paraphrased were from the late 80s Wogan clip. Again, I don't think it's any more offensive than what many white comedians say about black people (in fact it's much less so to me) but, she has always been aware of what she's doing. If you watch the clip her persona seems to be the chubby, charming woman who always could use a bit of affection.

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/22/14 at 3:09am

I love that on that on that Wogan clip she was very happy and content and even proud of her figure back in the day -- well before the age of self-affirming Dove soap commercials and Jezebel. Here are her two 'Loose Women' (which is, apparently, a View-like panel show in the UK).

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/22/14 at 5:06pm

Gaveston--I don't doubt anything you said, but those black comments I paraphrased were from the late 80s Wogan clip. Again, I don't think it's any more offensive than what many white comedians say about black people (in fact it's much less so to me) but, she has always been aware of what she's doing. If you watch the clip her persona seems to be the chubby, charming woman who always could use a bit of affection.

Eric, I didn't mean to seriously suggest that MM is senile--for one thing, her timing is still too good. I was just allowing that some people do discard the restrictions of political correctness as they age.

I agree with you that she knows exactly what she is going and I will add further that it probably plays even better in England than here. (You KNOW Graham Norton is is thrilled by anything that pushes boundaries!)

But in my many evenings with her in person, her sense of humor was pointed, but never to my mind politically offensive, racist or xenophobic. I suspect she enjoys the fact that she can get away with it on TV. I'll ask our mutual friend (also British and has known Miriam forever) the next time I talk to her.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/22/14 at 5:09pm

Oh, and let's face it: since we appointed George W. once and then re-elected him, a LOT of the world thinks we must be retarded. Frankly, I have my own suspicions...

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/23/14 at 7:10pm

I finally saw the episode with Dominic Cooper. Except for her off-the cuff remark about MAMMA MIA!, Miriam seemed pretty tame to me (though still delightful).

And let's face it: when it comes to MAMMA MIA!, she's not wrong.