Newark Public Schools get $100 million from Facebook creator on Oprah today- Page 2

[violet72]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 12:49pm

My thing about Charter schools do you get judged by your state tests...or do you take state tests? Do you have to use NJCCs? Do you have to have a number of PD hours? Can you expel kids that violently misbehave? Do you have students with disabilities?

If we want education to be fixed then the people in charge must have a degree/background in education. The chancellor of the DC schools has her degree in Government...it's like me running the war department

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 2:13pm

Rhee's degree is in government, her background is in education. Your comparison would only be appropriate if you've served in the military for 15 years.

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 2:34pm

According to Wikipedia, Rhee taught in Teach for America for three years before switching to the admin/governmental side. You don't need a degree in education to go this route. Having that kind of background and claiming to be an experienced educator is NOT the same as someone who taught twenty years in a classroom and has a degree in the education field.

Violet, thanks for asking the questions I've been wondering about...

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 2:38pm

Teacher educate thyself.

http://njcharters.org/faq/

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 5:19pm

In other words, all our fears about charter schools not really being held to the same level of accountability as public schools, yet receiving tax money, are true.

If a kid fails or is "too difficult," charter schools can give 'em the boot. Try that in a public school.

[violet72]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 5:33pm

here are some points that are in the movie and why they are myths

Also I know people who did Teach for America they lasted 3 years paid off their college loans and then went to law school...many of the Teach for America teachers don't last they see it as a way to pay off their student loans


myths

Updated On: 9/27/10 at 05:33 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 5:45pm

Violet - I know a couple of people who did that also - it did not make them career teachers with enough background to truly understand the educational system.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 6:48pm

See this is what I don't get - and this is from someone who thinks a quality public education is vital to America - instead of complaining about Charter Schools, why not make the public schools better - make teachers more accountable and make tenure a factor, but not the determination in whether a teacher stays or leaves?

If I had a kid right now, I would have to send them to either a charter or private school because at least in LA, many of the public schools are a mess. There is blame all around (not just the teachers), but it seems to me that the teachers union is far more interested in protecting the careers of its teachers as opposed to making sure they can actually do the job they are paid to perform.

If public schools were doing a good job, charter schools would not be so attractive. So, while pointing and yelling about how easy the charter schools have it, public school teachers need to look in the mirror and ask why are parents seeking out charter schools.

There are a host of problems why, including parents, administrator heavy districts, tenure, and (at least from my perspective) No Child Left Behind - which guides kids to be able to answer a test as opposed to developing critical reasoning skills.

And, for the record, my my was a teacher for many, many years. I know teaching can be a thankless job - but guess what, many many jobs are thankless for a good part of the day or year. When everyone is being asked to work more for less, pay more for health care, and deal with added job stress on a daily basis.

[strummergirl]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 7:03pm

"Also I know people who did Teach for America they lasted 3 years paid off their college loans and then went to law school...many of the Teach for America teachers don't last they see it as a way to pay off their student loans."

I think that is being a little too cynical. I know people personally who did it for a real sense of service and belief they could make a difference even if they did not have a proper outlook on it. For some people it just hit them it is a really hard job. I never once heard it as a gateway to wipe out student loans (on a teacher's salary?) only to go to a graduate school. That says more of the mirage of TFA than the people who think it would be 'cool' (bless their hearts) to teach underprivileged kids. People need to realize there are teacher's program in their colleges, that often are lower in tuition.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 7:49pm

Having that kind of background and claiming to be an experienced educator is NOT the same as someone who taught twenty years in a classroom and has a degree in the education field. 
 
Three years with Teach for America and then 13 years in administration for a teacher recruitment and training non-profit that has contracts with dozens of major school systems across the country is a background the educational system. Probably a much more diverse and experienced background than someone who's spent decades in a 6th grade English class reading Tuck Everlasting 30 times. 
 
In other words, all our fears about charter schools not really being held to the same level of accountability as public schools, yet receiving tax money, are true. 
 
What level of accountability are public schools held to if school systems like Newark, DC and Detroit (to name only a few of the countless) were allowed to reach their current states? If tax payer dollars are going to fund the traditional public education system, there needs to be an administrator with more than just classroom experience to hold the education system accountable. Suggesting someone needs 20 years of classroom experience just to be able to decide bad teachers with failing students need to be fired just seems like more of the promote from within, last hired first fired, same old policy that protects teachers at the expense of the students, and has run school systems into the ground all over the country. If that's the way you want NJ public schools to be run, fine, but I think the rest of the country would prefer an increase in education standards rather than a decline. 
 
If public schools were doing a good job, charter schools would not be so attractive. So, while pointing and yelling about how easy the charter schools have it, public school teachers need to look in the mirror and ask why are parents seeking out charter schools. 
 
Exactly. Charter schools came about because public schools hadn't been doing their jobs for a long time.

Updated On: 9/27/10 at 07:49 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 8:57pm

Don't get my wrong -- there are lots of schools that need help. I just don't think privatizing education is the solution. Neither is looking at the teachers. In reality, other than from a strictly financial situation, neither is looking at administration.

The real problem in probably 90% or more of the cases is lack of parental involvement. My solution is to fine the parents for failing grades. The government and everyone else who is so gung ho on standardized tests -- put your money where your mouth is. Test the kids, but if the kids fail, fine the parents. Hell, give a tax break for certain scores. Watch grades go up!

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 9:00pm

Jason, stop while you are behind.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 9:47pm

My thing about Charter schools do you get judged by your state tests...or do you take state tests?

Yes.

Do you have to use NJCCs?

Yes.

Do you have to have a number of PD hours?

Yes.

Can you expel kids that violently misbehave?

Only after all other interventions have been exhausted.

Do you have students with disabilities?

Yes.

It might behooth you to read up on what exactly a charter school is before you start making claims and statements about something you clearly know nothing about.

In other words, all our fears about charter schools not really being held to the same level of accountability as public schools, yet receiving tax money, are true.

No, it isn't. Absolutely not. Again, please get a clue before coming on here speaking about something you know nothing about. Charter schools receive a yearly audit from the state, and are up for charter renewal every 5 years.

If a kid fails or is "too difficult," charter schools can give 'em the boot. Try that in a public school.

Once again, charter schools have to follow the same expulsion procedures the district schools do. And, charter schools are every bit as "public" as a district school. Legally, we are not allowed to discriminate in ANY way when it comes to admission- that includes intellectual ability.

Don't get my wrong -- there are lots of schools that need help. I just don't think privatizing education is the solution. Neither is looking at the teachers. In reality, other than from a strictly financial situation, neither is looking at administration.

So, as you see it, nothing within the schools or the district need fixing? Are you absolutely serious? And once again, charter schools are not "privatizing" education. They are public schools.

The real problem in probably 90% or more of the cases is lack of parental involvement. My solution is to fine the parents for failing grades. The government and everyone else who is so gung ho on standardized tests -- put your money where your mouth is. Test the kids, but if the kids fail, fine the parents. Hell, give a tax break for certain scores. Watch grades go up!

Parental involvement is but one piece to the puzzle, not a cure all. Innovative, effective teaching, a strong leader, and accountability are equally as important. It sounds to me like you want to take all of the responsibility for learning away from the teachers and schools, and put it all on the parents. Come on. Take ownership of your students and their success.

Updated On: 9/27/10 at 09:47 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 9:53pm

My kids score exceptionally well, thank you very much. Last year 94% of my kids passed the standardized tests - only ones that didn't were inclusion kids with special circumstances. I happen to be fortunate. There are far too many places where parents aren't involved or don't care at all and that makes a huge difference.

[adamgreer]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 9:59pm

Your "inclusion kids" are just as much a part of your class as any other student and should be counted among your pass/fail scores. This dismissive attitude of those students with exceptionalities sums up exactly what's wrong with a lot of traditional district schools.

There are far too many places where parents aren't involved or don't care at all

Why don't you just come out and say what's really on your mind? Those "too many places" that you refer to are urban, lower-income areas, where the minorities live. Only the white parents in your suburban middle class district "care", right?

and that makes a huge difference.

As I said before, it's one piece of a much larger puzzle. If the child isn't getting support at home, that doesn't mean you just say "oh well" and that's the end of that. Be innovative. Figure something out. Find them a mentor. Heck, become a mentor yourself.

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 10:02pm

Why are you assuming I'm white?

[jasonf]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 10:07pm

Actually, I'm kind of insulted by all of your insinuations. I'm damn proud of having that many kids pass. I'm not in the least dismissive of the kids who didn't -- but there's only so much a teacher can do without parental involvement. Your insinuations of racism are frankly disgusting, and say more about your assumptions about education than anything else -- assumptions that lead to the thinking that's preventing public education from being what it should be if properly supported.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 10:41pm

You used to have an avatar picture of yourself and Caitie at Disney World. Besides, adamgreer didn't assume you were white, he assumed your students were white.

Why don't you just come out and say what's really on your mind? Those "too many places" that you refer to are urban, lower-income areas, where the minorities live. Only the white parents in your suburban middle class district "care", right?

Exactly. Kids with uninvolved parents deserve an equal education to the kids whose parents bought Baby Einstein. That's the whole point of public education. If the education system isn't going to regulate itself to provide that, then someone needs to step in to do it for them.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 10:45pm

Oh for cripes sake.

The next one to call the other Hitler loses.

And, unless I am mistaken, you posted your photo before and you are white.


Updated On: 9/27/10 at 10:45 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 10:49pm

He's not the one with the story about the deer, is he?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 11:05pm

PJ, I think so.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/10 at 11:20pm

So you mean Angry Teacher is really Angry Deer with a different issue?

Oh, for crap's sake.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 9/28/10 at 12:24am

Angry Deer is the new Hitler. Now we're going to lose the thread.

[SonofMammaMiaSam]

Posted: 9/28/10 at 7:30am

Yep, he's the murderer who hit the deer that dared to get in his way. Charter schools are the new deer.

[Bluemoon]

Posted: 9/28/10 at 8:10am

I happen to like the job that (most) charter schools are doing, particularly in urban areas where the public system has failed its public (I live outside D.C.). Any time I've visited a charter school I've seen energy, enthusiam and a dedication to mission that impresses me. The results speak for themselves. They do more for less and they are focused and innovative. From what I've seen of Adamgreer's posts here, he seems to typify the usual charter school educators I've met. I don't think their success needs to be a source of bitterness for others.