Nomar traded to Chicago- Page 2

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:22am

ahhh, jp, as a former indians fan i can sympathize. you know the old joke (and it's been true for many, many years) is that you can't win a world series without at least one ex-indian on your team.

for the record, i quit the indians when they signed john rocker. as a daily #7 train rider, i felt my duty was to my home.

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 11:24am

As an I-77 guy, I stuck with the Tribe, although the Rocker trade was a pretty obvious bad idea, even at the time.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 12:02pm

But papa- how much of those teams did Showalter really build? He's not a GM, after all. And I will not forgive him for what he did to Cone in the 1995 ALDS. Ever. You don't make one of your best pitchers throw 140+ pitches when he's clearly exhausted. And if I remember right, Showalter refused to put Rivera, too. Admittedly, back then he was Mariano, not MARIANO, but he had a 0 ERA for that series in 5.1 innings pitched. So I'm not hopping on the Showalter bandwagon with you. Sorry.

Torre isn't perfect, but he does have his strong points, not the least of which is having the patience of a saint. I would have clocked Steinbrenner over the head with a bat by now if I were him.

[Kelliexo90]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:29pm

I am a huge Sox fan, and I'm mad that they traded him! Poor Nomar, he goes from one curse to another. Oy, I don't know if I would be able to handle it. The Curse of the Bambino and the Curse of the...Billy Goat? Psh. They sell break the curse cookies now, I ate one...

[Maggie]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:31pm

I bought the Reverse the Curse ice cream. It's not that bad...little mini peanut butter cups, chocolate covered peanuts in vanilla ice cream w/fudge swirl. Anybody try this?

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:43pm

How odd is it that the Red Sox and Cubs are dealing together to try and improve their pennant chances?

It would be like France and Poland sharing war strategies.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:56pm

no, he did bring in mo to close out the 8th and then for the 9th and 10th, but went with mcdowell (who'd held 'em to 1 run in 6 innings in game 3) in the 11th after we'd scored to go up 5-4. and recall that our one run in those three innings came against randy johnson (why couldn't cashman have made the rade this year????) too.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 1:58pm

Why the **** did Showalter wait until Cone had thrown 140+ pitches? Why did he wait until Cone walked in a run? Because he didn't trust Mo. But as I said, I'll forgive him for not completely trusting Rivera before he was RIVERA, but I won't forgive the pitch count he put Cone through.

And Cashman couldn't make the Johnson trade this year because we have no farm system.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:16pm

king george can buy a thousand farms for god's sake. give them money, dammit! what else is it good for if not to buy us the best team humanly (and i use that term loosely around giambi and sheffield) possible?

but, it's true, he didn't trust the bullpen. and that was huge, but they had not done a whole lot to inspire confidence to that point.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:23pm

Farms aren't bought, dearie. They're drafted. And the Yankees haven't been drafting all that well lately. And in the few instances when something sorta good has come out of their system, like Claussen, they've instantly trade them away. Though this year's draft was actually kinda promising, we won't see that pay off (if it does) for another 3 years at least.

And Giambi has a benign tumor. I wouldn't rag on him too much.

Rivera had a 0 ERA in that series. 0. I think that inspires confidence. And he was always stronger in relief than in the starting position- his ERA was inflated by his starts in 1995.

And 140+ pitches just isn't cool. Cone wasn't exactly young, he had a bunch of baserunners, and he was just dead tired. I don't care if your bullpen hasn't inspired too much confidence. You go to them then, unless to want to do permanent damage to your pitcher. Grady Little made the same mistake last fall.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:32pm

c'mon, cone was only 32. but yeah, 140 is too many.

i know about farms i just thought that perhaps george might buy a few farms and begin growing pod players. eh, maybe if stem cell goes through.

mo had gone 2 and 1/3 already. if anything, buck was kicking himself in the ass for leaving coney in there too long and was determined not to make the same mistake twice. who woulda thunk that mcdowell would have fallen apart like that?

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:36pm

Yeah. *is sad* But regrets are useless anyway. All you can do is learn from your mistakes.

But honestly, I think Showalter wasn't just fired because he lost and this is Steinbrenner we're talking about- I think he had personality conflicts with several people in the organization. And the same thing was rumored about Arizona and Texas. Who knows.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:44pm

well, all i've heard about him is that he's got a great baseball mind and that he's a teensy weensy bit of a control freak, but he has been there within two years of two separate clubs winning it all and i have to think that he made a serious contribution to both. and i think he designed the diamonbacks logo too.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:46pm

I think Showalter is smart. And maybe he's made personality adjustments since coming to Texas. (Or maybe he just finds a younger team easier to control to his content than a team full of veterans with minds of their own).

As for the D'Backs logo thing...really? Heh. Cool.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:47pm

i put more money on the young team concept.

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 2:54pm

So it's probably best for everyone that he left the Yanks. If he had a hard time with the 1995 team, I'd like to see how he would have dealt with people like Moose, Clemens, Gooden, Knoblauch, Irabu, and *shudder* El Duque. Torre isn't perfect at dealing at players with strong personalities or head cases (and the line between the two can be blurry sometimes), but he makes sure they don't affect the whole team. Updated On: 8/2/04 at 02:54 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 3:05pm

well, torre is helped by the fact that they've won and he has players in that locker room who've won with him. that goes a long way towards keeping things positive, but yeah, joe's a good egg. i think he relies on his players to a great extent, but even joe can't keep some under control. *cough* ruben sierra *cough*

[Plum]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 3:08pm

Well, head cases will be head cases. And Ruben Sierra is nothing compared to the sublime ridiculousness that is David Wells. This is a guy who broke his pitching hand in a barrom fight. Who got stabbed with a butter knife. Who wrote a book dissing his teammates- while he was still playing with them. Who didn't work out, then bragged about it. Then left his last World Series game with a bad back after one inning the next night, contributing more than any other individual player (including Sori, IMHO) to the Yanks' loss last year. I don't blame Torre for hating the guy.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 3:13pm

you left out, who pitched the 15th perfect game in the history of baseball.

[chinkie azn jai]

Posted: 8/2/04 at 3:20pm

Wow, i never knew we had such enthusiastic baseball fans here. But, GO CUBBIES!!!! thats all i gotta say! =D