Our shifting take on looting: Baghdad vs. New Orleans — Page 2

Which is insane because last I heard there is no way for the cops to communicate with each other, there is no place to PUT arrestees, and many people are armed.

I think there's a REASON that people like Bill O'Reilly freak out the way he is: THIS is what happens when poor people FINALLY have enough. They FINALLY crack. How can you tell people that it takes FEMA four or five days to get disaster relief going and it takes the President three days to respond at all? I mean, he hopped the first Air Force One much quicker to get involved with Terry Schiavo.

People just do not want to face the seething class resentment in this country, because it's too frightening for them to think about.

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Updated On: 8/31/05 at 11:27 PM

We may both be right. But I think there is no underestimating what people with nothing will do in the most desperate of circumstances. I'm not saying it's rational, I am saying the situation they're in really makes rationality a rare commodity.

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Oh and check this out. I found it at Nola.com, which has been invaluable reading over the past few days:

"Amid the turmoil Wednesday, thieves commandeered a forklift and used it to push up the storm shutters and break the glass of a pharmacy. The crowd stormed the store, carrying out so much ice, water and food that it dropped from their arms as they ran. The street was littered with packages of ramen noodles and other items.

"Looters also chased down a state police truck full of food. The New Orleans police chief ran off looters while city officials themselves were commandeering equipment from a looted Office Depot. During a state of emergency, authorities have broad powers to take private supplies and buildings for their use."

So, EXPLAIN that dichotomy to parched and hungry people! The italics are mine, by the way.

I think this brings us back nicely to Auggie's original question in this thread. Why is "plasma TV" being invoked here in multiple posts as the marker for stepping over the line? Meanwhile, Donald Rumsfeld shrugged off priceless artifacts from Mesopotamia that were stolen on the US's watch.

I maintain that this is what America looks like when the crap hits the fan. And it's going to be hitting it regularly as prices escalate, as the country goes broke, as we regret the huge amount of American farmland that has been turned into useless strip malls.

And it ain't gonna be pretty.

"New Orleans Cops Ordered to Stop Looters"

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I think plasma tv is being used as a marker soley because, even in a stressed state of mind, it's not the kind of thing that's even useful in this situation. That's all. When I see the footage of these poor souls running with bread, shoes, food, medicine..my heart goes out to them and I think...what happens when there's nothing left for them to loot?

I've been reading the same sights as you (lol) and I agree with what you are saying, ESPECIALLLY the part about Bush hightailing it back to DC when Schiavo was dying/living, but when hundreds of thousands of poor people are drowning in a hurricane....he "thinks about ending his vacation early".

But that's another thread entirely....

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Video footage shows only what the cameraperson chooses to shoot. I hardly think having seen a few video loops on Fox or CNN justifies the sweeping statement that "none of the civilians seem to be helping each other".

As for transporting people to Houston, I can't imagine that another facility of that size is available just a hundred miles north of New Orleans. Nor do I imagine that areas a hundred miles north have been left unscathed.

It actually seems prudent to move a large number of homeless away from the disaster area to less the burden consolidated in one area.

And although I'm not generally a fan of Texas, it's kinda nice that they offered, no?

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"unscathed" isn't needed, just unflooded with working utilities - which Baton Rouge, just 80 miles away, is. A facility isn't needed either - the armed forces know how to pitch tents and erect portable shelters. Moving all the way to Houston subjects people to too long a trip, slows the evacuation and stabilization process, makes reuniting separated families more difficult, and takes these people too far away from familiar territory. It's such a waste of time and resources.

"I honestly don't see the National Guard being able to pitch tents or anything anywhere remotely close to the affected area."

they certainly can - not that tents are the first thing needed
(water and latrine facilities are first needed, followed by food distribution, medical assessment, and shelter). More than anything else they do the military moves, shelters, and feeds people. other than possible building collapses from standing in water the damage threat is over. those piles of rubble aren't going anywhere so the only focus on them should be by the units searching for survivors. ditto the flooded areas. all civilians should be offered transport to a nearby collection area (if governor I would probably commandeer a few small municipal airports for this purpose, or some such open space). once the people are stabilized debris cleanup can commence. able-bodied volunteer labor from the camp would be strongly encouraged.

both north and west of New Orleans are not flooded - the difference is a max two hour bus ride vs over five hours to Houston with a limited number of buses, which more than doubles evac time, to a location where they can't stay for very long anyway. not to mention that none of the disaster relief was headed for Houston, so now either Houston will have to drum something up on their own or aid will have to be diverted from the stricken areas.

THIS is what happens when looters are allowed to "make themselves feel better" by stealing electronics, jewelry, and items other than the completely understandable looting of bread, water, food and medicines:

From Yahoo news
"Looting spiraled so out of control that Mayor Ray Nagin ordered virtually the entire police force to abandon search-and-rescue efforts and focus on the brazen packs of thieves who have turned increasingly hostile."

So go and tell the people drowning in their attics that they will now have to wait "a bit longer".

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I agree with you on that...there is more important activities to undertake. I don't think it's the store items they are worried about.

It's the fact that these "opportunist" looters ( I want to make it clear that the problem is NOT the "I need food for my family" looter) stole guns from WalMart and are now beginning to go into people's houses to loot. They are shooting at other citizens, not just the police, either.

It's not the items that anyone cares about here. It's the escalation of violence of the looters.

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"We live in an age when finding the distraction is key."

And when there is no distraction available because there is no electricity in a city under water and people who have nothing have little or no food or water, they steal guns and shoot at anything that in their (probably delerious from lack of food or water) minds represents "the system."

Every hour that there is further delay in relief, the rage boils stronger. I'm sorry, but I DO think this is what happens when the curtain falls and people under duress are told that they shouldn't pay attention to the man behind the curtain. The raw deal of their lives come into high relief, without the distractions that usually keep them from looking at it.

Poor people, the ones whose relatives largely make up the military (well, except the officers), know that a billion dollars a day has been spent in Iraq. And the poor people in New Orleans know that money to reinforce the levees was taken away.

1 + 1 = BOOM

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"Everything will work out..." the President said.

It's fine, we're fine, everything's fine. "People LOVE what we're doing" the administration said as the wetlands were given to the developers for more places for the haves and the have-mores ("my base," the President joked) to live and recreate.

This is all giving me such a headache.

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"I'm concerned that so many looters are getting firearms and ammunitions. Once the mass evacuation is done...who will be left...those willing to shoot each other to death?"

The idea of "Escape From New Orleans" is not so far-fetched.

As for the idea of Houston being too far and inconvenient, that's just malarky. We're talking 30,000 people here. Does anyone honestly think porta-potties and tents for 30,000 people is s better solution than the Astrodome??? It has air-conditioning and restroom facilities. Houston has quite a bit of experience with hurricane and flood relief and is equipped to provide aid. I lived through a few hurricanes and floods there, myself. Since Houston built the new football and baseball stadiums, the Astrodome is empty most of the time and it is better suited for providing aid, making the people more comfortable, new transportation into downtown, and can offer better control than tents and porta-potties for approximately four months. For people who have been waiting days for electricity, food, working restrooms and dry shelter, I don't think a couple more hours on a bus will be a major hardship for them.

I haven't seen any mention of this yet, but has anyone heard about Tallahassee? Hotels are kicking out hurricane refugees for fans of the Miami-Florida State football game. It makes me nauseous.

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Updated On: 9/1/05 at 10:21 AM