Republican-Dominated Supreme Court SMACKS DOWN BUSH & CHENEY- Page 2

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:17pm

Sorry, I didn't make a direct address. Papa is of the opinion that putting our techniques under the blanket designation of "torture" does them a disservice, hence my response.
We keep touting ourselves as a shining beacon of freedom and democracy. Against even the worst opponent, therefore, we should show ourselves better than them. That included indefinitely detaining people we don't intend to charge merely on the suspicion that they MIGHT do something.
You can claw at the idea that they're not U.S. citizens all you want, but it's a safe leap to suggest that the things we get away with against non-citizens can easily find their way into practice against citizens.

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:20pm

I have tasted the nectar of Bush/Cheney failure and I find it sweeeeeeeeht!

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:20pm

What's that film where people are jailed before they commit the offence called?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:22pm

minority report

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:23pm

All I can, in good conscience, remember is that it starred Tom Cruise.
Ok, it was the Minority Report.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:24pm

c'mon, it had that crazy albino guy from the failed tv show too.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:37pm

Anyway, This Camp X-ray stuff smacks of it.

The men who were released after two years (I mentioned this earlier) said how they were treated in a radio interview, about the interrogation and cell conditions. It was just not right.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:39pm

Well, I'm a bit pragmatic when it comes to blanket belief in what one side says over another always as it's definitely going to be in these detainees' interest now to exagerrate the conditions. But what we know that is completely factual about Gitmo is disturbing enough to me.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:41pm

The whole thing reflects badly on America and Americans as a whole, even though so many are just as shocked by it as we are in Europe and elsewhere.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:46pm

Yep.
But, as with everything, Bush was sure to point out that anyone who doesn't agree with him and his tactics doesn't believe in freedom and, therefore, believes in tyranny.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:50pm

eh, i'll take being thought badly of while still alive as opposed to martyrdom.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:51pm

True. It's sad. For him it's either 'My way or the highway'. Can anyone tell me what either Iraq or Afghanistan had to do with 9/11? George Bush said he wanted to bring freedom and unity to the world. He did unite the world, AGAINST America. Terrorists hate America MORE, because of what Bush has done. Then he says they're just evil for no reason and so he attacks some other random countries, so that they hate him too.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:53pm

Such a bad mode of thought, papa, led us to round up all the Japanese living in American in WWII and put them in camps for "our safety." Is that really the price you want to pay?
Suspicion and fear is as powerful as a suicide bomber psychologically.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:55pm

You rounded up Japanese people in WW2? I liked FDR. I won't like him as much if that's true.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:58pm

Mm-hmm. In fact, our Secretary of Transportation was in one with his family.

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 1:59pm

God. I never knew. What was the name of the other guy that ctuck groups of people in camps, you know, the Austrian one...

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:00pm

can anyone tell me what either iraq or afghanistan had to do with 9/11?

you do recall that the taliban in afghanistan were providing safe haven for osama bin laden and ayman al zawahiri and even after extended negotiations refused to give them up even when faced with invasion, right? or are you one who of those doesn't believe that osama or al qaeda had anything to do with 9/11?

iraq had no direct link to 9/11.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:01pm

You know it. It's not a pretty thing we did but I will say we didn't go that far. I don't have any proof to back it up, but I'm also not aware of any of our campees dying. This information's readily available, I'm sure, to anyone with a Google finger.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:02pm

nicely done, vml, fdr = hitler!

[DG]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:04pm

An impactful quote from my Genuine Faux Zen Book of Goggledygook:

"All's fair in love and war."

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:04pm

I doubt FDR would have had the Japanese people in the camps killed. Still weird though. And on Afghanistan, the numbers show that relatively few soldiers actually entered Afghanistan. Thousands invaded Iraq. If Afghanistan was related to 9/11 and Iraq was not, why concentrate on invading Iraq instead of searching Afghanistan for Terrorists?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:05pm

Excerpts from Presidint Stoopit's press conference:
#

PRESIDENT BUSH: We've agreed to take two questions a side.

Walking in, I reminded the prime minister of one of Elvis's greatest songs, "Don't Be Cruel." (Laughter.) So keep that in mind, huh, when you ask a question.

Q Thank you, Mr. President. You've said that you wanted to close the prison at Guantanamo Bay, but you were waiting for the Supreme Court decision that came out today. Do you intend now to close the Guantanamo Bay quickly? And how do deal with the suspects that you said were too dangerous to be released or sent home?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Yeah, I -- thank you for the question on a, quote, "ruling" that literally came out in the midst of my meeting with the prime minister, and so I haven't had a chance to fully review the findings of the Supreme Court.

I -- one, I assure you that we take them very seriously. Two, that, to the extent that there is latitude to work with the Congress to determine whether or not the military tribunals will be an avenue in which to give people their day in court, we will do so.

The American people need to know that this ruling, as I understand it, won't cause killers to be put out on the street. In other words, there's not a -- as I -- as I was -- a drive-by briefing on the way here, I was told that this was not going to be the case. Anyway, we will seriously look at the findings, obviously.

And one thing I'm not going to do, though, is I'm not going to jeopardize the safety of the American people. People have got to understand that. I understand we're in a war on terror, that these people were picked up off of a battlefield, and I will -- I -- I will protect the people, and at the same time conform with the findings of the Supreme Court.

Q Do you think the prison will close?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I haven't had a chance to fully review what the court said. I -- I wish I had; I -- I could have given you a better answer. As I say, we take this -- the findings seriously. And again, I -- as I understand it -- now, don't -- please don't hold me to this -- that there is a way forward with military tribunals and working with the United States Congress. As I understand, certain senators have already been out, expressing their desire to address what the Supreme Court found, and we will work with the Congress.

I want to find a way forward. In other words, I have told the people that I would like for there to be a way to return people from Guantanamo to their home countries, but some of 'em -- people need to be tried in our courts. And that's -- the Hamdan decision was the way forward for that part of my statement.

And again, I would like to review the case, and we are. We got people looking at it right now to determine how we can work with Congress, if that's available, to solve the problem.

.......

Q Yes, Mr. President. We can assume you've been at least been given some of the broad strokes of the Supreme Court's decision on Guantanamo --

PRESIDENT BUSH: Well, I just gave you the answer on that. I'll be glad to answer another question. I gave you the broad strokes that I've been given.

Q Right. But this -- can you comment on what looks like a judicial repudiation of your administration's policy on the treatment of terror suspects post-9/11?

PRESIDENT BUSH: Matt, I -- I can't -- I wish I could comment on it. I would. Obviously, I'm a person who, you know, generally comments on things. I haven't been briefed enough to make a comment on it except for the following thing -- I'm sorry you had to waste your question, but -- we will conform to the Supreme Court. We will analyze the decision. To the extent that the Congress is given any latitude to develop a way forward using military tribunals, we will work with them.

As I understand, a senator has already been on TV. I haven't seen it, hadn't heard what he said.

But they briefed me and said he wants to devise law in conformity with the case that would enable us to use a military tribunal to hold these people to account. And if that's the case, we'll work with him. But, you know, that's -- I cannot comment any more than I have just done in the first question, otherwise I would have. I just haven't been fully briefed enough to answer your question, Matt.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:13pm

Didn't the Court's decision say NO to tribunals of any kind? And bush is still saying they're going to try and find a way to do it?
One wonders if he gets a faxed copy of SCOTUS and Congress rulings and bills and just farts on them right there.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:15pm

Don't be mean! He's TRYING!

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/29/06 at 2:16pm

On the 'Ponderables' thread, one person said 'If pro is the opposite of con, then progress is the opposite of congress'. Did President Bush secretly write that in relation to getting his way?