Republicans on Perjury

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 6:28am

Bill Frist (R-TN):
"To not remove President Clinton for grand jury perjury lowers uniquely the Constitution's removal standard, and thus requires less of the man who appoints all federal judges than we require of those judges themselves.
"I will have no part in the creation of a constitutional double-standard to benefit the President. He is not above the law. If an ordinary citizen committed these crimes, he would go to jail."

Lindsey Graham:
"Should he be impeached? Very quickly; the hardest decision I think I will ever make. Learning that the president lied to the grand jury about sex, I still believe that every president of the United States, regardless of the matter they called to testify about before a grand jury should testify truthfully and if they don't they should be subject to losing their job.
"I believe that about Bill Clinton and I'll believe that about the next president. If it had been a Republican, I would have still believed that and I would hope that if a Republican person had done all this that some of us would've went (sic) over and told him, You need to leave office."

Henry Hyde (R-ILL, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee):
"But when circumstances require you to participate in a formal court proceeding and under oath mislead the parties and the court by lying, that is a public act and deserves public sanction. Perjury is a crime with a five-year penalty."

James Sensenbrenner (R-WI):
"What is on trial here is the truth and the rule of law. Our failure to bring President Clinton to account for his lying under oath and preventing the courts from administering equal justice under law, will cause a cancer to be present in our society for generations. I want those parents who ask me the questions, to be able to tell their children that even if you are president of the United States, if you lie when sworn "to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth," you will face the consequences of that action, even when you don't accept the responsibility for them."

Chuck Hagel (R-NB):
"There can be no shading of right and wrong. The complicated currents that have coursed through this impeachment process are many. But after stripping away the underbrush of legal technicalities and nuance, I find that the President abused his sacred power by lying and obstructing justice. How can parents instill values and morality in their children? How can educators teach our children? How can the rule of law for every American be applied equally if we have two standards of justice in America--one for the powerful and the other for the rest of us?"

Mitch McConnell (R-KY):
"Perjury and obstruction hammer away at the twin pillars of our legal system: truth and justice. Every witness in every deposition is required to raise his or her right hand and swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help them God. Every witness in every grand jury proceeding and in every trial is required to raise his or her right hand and swear to tell the truth. Every official declaration filed with the court is stamped with the express affirmation that the declaration is true. In the words of our nation's first Supreme Court Chief Justice, John Jay: `if oaths should cease to be held sacred, our dearest and most valuable rights would become insecure.'"

and

"This nation sits at a crossroads. One direction points to the higher road of the rule of law. Sometimes hard, sometimes unpleasant, this path relies on truth, justice and the rigorous application of the principle that no man is above the law. Now, the other road is the path of least resistance. This is where we start making exceptions to our laws based on poll numbers and spin control. This is when we pitch the law completely overboard when the mood fits us, when we ignore the facts in order to cover up the truth.
"No man is above the law, and no man is below the law. That’s the principle that we all hold very dear in this country."
--Rep. Tom DeLay
On the impeachment of President Clinton
October 9, 1998

[Pinguin]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 8:15am

Just remember PalJoey that it goes both ways; the Democrats didn't think that perjury was enough of a reason for Bill Clinton to be impeached...


and we're also probably not talking about Bush being indicted of perjury, so we're not really talking about the same thing; the public is going to demand resignations from those indicted who will be his underlings, not the impeachment of the president himself, since he will most likely not be charged.

And I don't really think the Republican leaders of the party have been saying that they don't think perjury is a crime and should be looked over; none of these quotes are from those who are likely to be indicted either.



To be fair.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 8:26am

On Meet the Press on Sunday, Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson said:

"I certainly hope that if there is going to be an indictment that says something happened, that it is an indictment on a crime and not some perjury technicality where they couldn’t indict on the crime so they go to something just to show that their two years of investigation were not a waste of time and dollars."

She only backed down after it was pointed out to her that in 1998 she had said:

"Willful, corrupt, and false sworn testimony before a Federal grand jury is a separate and distinct crime under applicable law and is material and perjurious if it is 'capable' of influencing the grand jury in any matter before it, including any collateral matters that it may consider...I vote `Guilty' on Article I, Perjury. I vote`Guilty' on Article II, Obstruction of Justice."

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 9:33am

There is a "huge" difference in lying about sex and lying about using the power of the government to take down a civil servant who uses his first amendment freedom to criticize the adnimistration's lies about a war in which 2000 American soldiers are sacrificed.

[mominator]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 9:38am

brd you are so awesome.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 10:22am

And, an estimated 30,000 Iraqi civilians died (at least).

What is good for the goose, is good for the Republicans.

Personally, I agree with brdlwyr.

Lying about sex is a whole different, minor league ballpark from lying about national security issues, and the basis for a war.

This war has not only killed thousands - probably hundreds of thousands by the time it is over, but it has helped bankrupt our own country. Taking resources away from our own infrastructure, schools, health care, and saddled huge debt on the shoulders of our children and grandchildren. All while there has be a huge transfer of resources domestically from the middle class and poor to the rich/elite.

These past five years have done long-term, structural damage to the middle class in this country. Some of us (like me) believe that a thriving middle class is the only thing that saves this country from itself - this war, and the Bush Tax policices together have in my mind damaged the balance of a our own economic eco-system. Opportunity is no longer someting that can be easily grasped. When opportunity is no longer freely available, our whole system breaks down.

We should be ashamed that we let this happen on our watch. And, come five, ten years down the road, those nice Christian soccer moms may realize the error of their ways.

Those who lied in order to advance their own political and economic agenda need to be held accountable.

Almost everyone lies about sex.

Very few of us will lie knowing that it will cost others their life.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 12:37pm

Pinguin--it was definitely going to be the Republicans' first line of defense, as this Daily News article makes clear. They had Kay Bailey Hutchinson send up a trial balloon this weekend and it sank. But that didn't keep Sean Hannity from pushing the perjury-is-no-big-deal on his show.
Bushies take aim at probe

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 12:43pm

I usually do not lie about sex,honestly. There is not much to lie about.

Y - thanks for the thoughts!

[lildogs]

Posted: 10/26/05 at 12:46pm

Pinguin, we're not talking about impeaching Bush at all, but rather the hypocrisy of the Republican party. We (as Democrats, or maybe just me) expect a certain amount of disingenuousness (is that a word?) from politicians on both sides, but when one side sets itself up as the moral superior, we intend to see that they follow through with their assertion. We would make much less of these crimes if we were dealing with people who readily admitted wrongs, dealt fairly, and were interested in a truly compassionate conservatism. This administration has proved time and again, it is interested only in filling its coffers, helping its friends, and punishing its enemies. It's as if the nerds have taken over the school and are enacting revenge for decades of dashed hopes, lost dreams and "kick me" signs.

I don't think George Bush should be impeached for lying. I think those people who revealed the identity of a secret agent should be imprisoned. Besides, you can't impeach somebody who wasn't elected in the first place.