Ronald Reagan, Greatest American

[Unknown User]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 4:01pm

I've seen so many stories about the cable show about the "Greatest Americans" and seen the posts about how well Reagan is doing in the voting. Le me share just a few facts about Ronald Reagan, Greatest American and why I'd never vote for him to be on that list.

1) He was in a position to do great things to halt the spread of AIDS and he did nothing. There was a right-wing campaign to stop a made-for-TV movie about him because the film reported that Reagan did nothing to fight AIDS because he saw AIDS patients as sinners who got what they deserved--Whether he made that comment or not, he sure governed as if that was how he felt. He went years before even mentioning the epidemic. It wasn't until 1993 Clinton came in that we got serious about stopping AIDS.

2) His "Family Values" facade was a joke. I wouldn't blast a politician for their private behaviour but since I saw Dinesh D'Souza on cable saying Reagan deserved to win because he was the man who brought values to American Politics, I must. Reagan was the only divorced president, and a horrible father-- on at least one occassion he failed to recognize his own son. For all Regan's promotion of "Just say No," Nancy was knocked up when they got married. And, as the darling of the religious right, he never attended church.

3) He swapped arms for hostages in Iran after explicitly saying he never would, never did and never should. On top of that, many epxerts feel that not only did he cut a deal with Iran, he asked them to hold the hostages LONGER so that they could return home on "His watch" rather than Carter's-- and indeed, he announced in his inaugural that the plane carrying the hostages had "crossed out of Iranian airspace" as he was speaking.

As we saw when he died recently, he's certainly presented himself as "America's Lovable Grandpa" but I think Ronald Reagan was a horrible president and a horrible man. I can't believe people would select him to represent the best of America.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 4:45pm

Joe, I have an even shorter way of saying that.......the man was a moron and totally UN-American

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 4:56pm

"Ray Gun" Reagan was also responsible for the totally unwarranted invasion of Grenada and appeared in Bedtime for Bonzo. I consider these equally offensive.



Thanks, Elphaba. I can't believe I spelled that incorrectly.
By using an a instead of an e, I had Reagan invading Spain. Updated On: 6/26/05 at 04:56 PM

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 5:00pm

Grenada

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 6:45pm

Anyone who takes a serious look at today's devastation in Africa due to pandemic HIV/AID infection rates, and asks how? why? should revisit the 80s without rose colored glasses. Reagan deliberatley opted to not take a world leadership position on this epidemic, seeing it as the plight of marginalized people (gay men, drug addicts) whose too-embarrassing-to-discuss-in mixed-company "lifestyle" damned them, and made them expendable. These are facts. He never mentioned the disease in a major speech. And this is a man who said, famously, of his ballet dancer son: "..we made sure he was all man..." before approving his career choice. (I wonder how he'd react to Ron Jr's left-of-Sontag work on MSNBC? Perhaps he'd like wish this all-man pundit had stayed "on point.")

As many noted at the time of his death, he is also given undue credit for helping the Berlin wall fall, when it's now widely known that it's demise was due to powerful, complicated issues/changes far greater than one American president's words.

The Reagans always came off like the Perons, Nancy a perfect Evita, with her quest for new china in the White House, and her cocktails n'high teas with Bill Blass (did the death of gay friends ever come up? Or just new ways to wear Nancy Red?). Check out Gloria Vanderbilt's new book about her many affairs with married man. Guess who her advisor was? Who popped up again and again in NY to giggle with her about a certain married high-up gent (unidentified): Nancita.

He used to drive me beyond crazy, but what really scares me is: He seems like a measured, thoughtful Renaissance Man next to the current incurious occupant. I'd take his bland 'morning in America' shtick in a heartbeat over the zealotry we are enduring under the Bush regime.

Updated On: 6/26/05 at 06:45 PM

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 6:48pm

How exactly was Reagan supposed to single-handedly stop the spread of AIDS?? come on, be realistic, nobody knew what it was or what to do. I'm not saying the man was a saint, but for helping ending the cold war and helping bring down the Berlin Wall, he certainly qualifies as a great American.

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 6:53pm

The fall of Communism in the former Soviet Union was inevitable.
Reagan just happened to be around for the photo-op.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 6:54pm

The idea of someone whose screen name is RENT-related taking a pro-Reagan on AIDS is beyond ironic.

Yes, "nobody knew what it was or what to do" all right. But perhaps, once a few thousand people had died of it, with infections soaring daily (allowing those characters who meet cute in RENT to have such interesting songs to sing, by the way...) it was time for the President of the Free World to express concern, compassion, and to dedicat funds to identifying its source, and seeking its cure. Imagine if we fought AIDS -- which is destroying a continent -- the way we are "fighting" terrorism. We might see a different world. (And, as Bob Geldof points out, Africans wouldn't be hopeless and thus fodder for Al Queda. AIDS, poverty, and terrorism are sadly interconnect in today's world.)

Before you get all goose-bumby over another playing of "One Song, Glory," try going to the library and reading, for starters AND THE BAND PLAYED ON. Or THE NORMAL HEART. Mr. Reagan was in office for 8 years. Find out how many people died before the word ever entered a single public utterance, and perhaps you'll see why some of us remain enraged.

Updated On: 6/26/05 at 06:54 PM

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 6:55pm

Reagan was the scariest president we've had yet. Yes. I said YET.

[EverythingIsRENT]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 7:04pm

Hindsight's always 20/20, isn't it? It's easy to look back now and say, "yeah, 20 years ago Reagan really could have done something about the spread of AIDS." What good does that do now? The man is dead. AIDS is here, and there are better ways of dealing with the problem other than blaming ONE man.

Also, I'm allowed to love RENT and still admire qualities about Reagan. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 7:29pm

"... It's easy to look back now and say, "yeah, 20 years ago Reagan really could have done something about the spread of AIDS." What good does that do now? The man is dead..."

'Guess you told me. How easy and disrespectful of me to "look back" and say Reagan "could have done something" about the spread of AIDS. I guess in my fervor to place a historical context a worldwide pandemic that kills millions, I just have no reverence for (at least one man's) death.

Updated On: 6/26/05 at 07:29 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 7:36pm

"The Reagans always came off like the Perons, Nancy a perfect Evita, with her quest for new china in the White House"

Sorry, this is completely beside the point I know, but all of the First Ladies had a set of china comissioned while their husbands were in office. Almost every president has a piece on display in the China Room at the White House. So you can't really criticize Nancy Reagan specifically for that.

I like President Reagan for a personal reason, but I also know that I don't agree with some of the actions he took (or didn't take) while in office.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 7:46pm

Everything IsRent, he couldn't even bring himself to say the word AIDS for a very, VERY long time, almost like he ignored it(had it been killing straight children of senators, he'd have done all he could......the man was an ass

[Unknown User]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 7:59pm

Everything is Rent, forgive the passions of some of the boardsters. Like myself, I am sure many of them saw many of their friends, lovers, brothers, co-workers, room mates, etc. die of AIDS and remember vividly RR's silence on the issue. I don't expect anyone who didn't live through those awful awful awful years and didn't attend the dozens (hundreds?) of memorial services to understand what it was like. To have you entire world consumed with this epidemic while your president ignored it, hosting his closeted gay friends at huge state dinners was too much for some of us to bear. If you really want to explore this issue, look at what the budgets were like for the CDC and the HHS while RR was in office compared to what even Bush Sr did. Reagan famously avoided saying the word AIDS in public for 6 years, giving the disease a foothold, not to mention killing thousands. If you'd like to see what a President could have done, look at Bill Clinton who made AIDS a huge priority, funding research and education. If you don't like that approach, look at what a leader like Princess Diana did simply by visiting AIDS wards and allowing herself to be photgraphed with patients. She set an example for the world: These people were not lepers, and they deserved our compassion.

It is hard to think that anyone who enjoys Rent and understands the effect AIDS had on the world at large and especially theater could defend Reagan's position on AIDS (or lack thereof) but I admire your ability to see the good that I can not in this awful awful man.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 8:15pm

Joe, you beautifully tempered my unbridled outrage with compassion, taking into account a younger poster's disconnect from an era he/she didn't experience first hand. (Though recommending AND THE BAND PLAYED ON still feels like good advice, too.) Bravo. We need you in Washington. Have you made a final career choice?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 8:41pm

You know, as a gay man I certainly have my share of antipathy toward this man over the issue of AIDS. However, he also TRAMPLED the constitution in his quest to create society in the way he perceived it. Do the words 'Iran-Contra' have NO meaning anymore? And we won't get into what he did to the economy.

Ask some South Americans what they think of him being touted as a 'great American'.

[Mamie]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 9:18pm

After seeing Lauer interviewed on one of the news shows, I took a look into these 'greatest Americans' and decided that with the exception of proving that the majority of the American public are idiots (at least the ones who voted in this thing) the whole exercise is basically crap.

It was pointed out on one of the reviews that had the contest been run by VH1, the winner would probably have been Britney Spears or Madonna (who actually made the list of 100!). The comedy channel would have named Eddie Murphy, and on and on.

My favorite Matt L. quote came concerning Clinton vs Bush:
"NBC's Matt Lauer on Sunday night labeled Bill Clinton as "brilliant" before trumpeting: "Under Clinton the economy boomed -- deficits turned into surplus -- and more than 22 million jobs were created. Along with the character flaws and the subpoenas came peace and prosperity." The brief segment did not feature any explicit criticisms of Clinton's presidency, but when it came to George W. Bush, whom Lauer described as "our tough-talking, language-mangling Commander-in-Chief who most Americans just want to hang out with," Discovery put on musician "Moby," who declared over flag-draped coffins: "From my perspective, you cannot call yourself a Christian, talk about the sanctity of life, and then support the death penalty, and support a war."

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 9:31pm

Unrelated note to Mamie: I love your avatar. Whenever I see Mary Badham's picture, I hear the music from the film. God, I love it.

[Bret]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 9:56pm

And he won. Stupid Americans...

[nmartin]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 9:59pm

Results are in: No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American people.

[ProducersFan]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 10:05pm

My mom announced that she's officially moving to Canada - I might not be far behind!

And he beat Walt Disney? Sick...

~Jessica

[ConvinceMe2]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 10:08pm

Why is everybody else stupid? If they voted him the greatest, then he must be. It's no different than the AFI telling us what the greatest films are. If they say it, then it must be true. Everybody just needs to accept it and move on with their lives.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 10:13pm

Convince - it's simply a matter of having to accept the limited viewpoint of those we share this rock with - kind of like the last election. Of course it's not life-threatening, but it DOES give one pause for thought, and we're just commenting on it. I suggest YOU accept it and move on.

[Plum]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 10:14pm

*sigh* If it makes you feel any better, it's a self-selected sample. For all we know, the Ronald Reagan Fan Club sent out e-mails to all its members telling them to vote. This isn't a reflection on "the American people" any more than any online poll is.

[Mamie]

Posted: 6/26/05 at 10:15pm

Funny statement for somebody named "Convince Me" to make.
(btw - don't see or listen to War of the Worlds. I know if they say it that it must be true, just don't go. OK?)