Was the London Terror Plot Real?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:28pm

Thomas C. Greene doesn't think so.

==

Making a quantity of TATP sufficient to bring down an airplane is not quite as simple as ducking into the toilet and mixing two harmless liquids together.

First, you've got to get adequately concentrated hydrogen peroxide. This is hard to come by, so a large quantity of the three per cent solution sold in pharmacies might have to be concentrated by boiling off the water. Only this is risky, and can lead to mission failure by means of burning down your makeshift lab before a single infidel has been harmed.

But let's assume that you can obtain it in the required concentration, or cook it from a dilute solution without ruining your operation. Fine. The remaining ingredients, acetone and sulfuric acid, are far easier to obtain, and we can assume that you've got them on hand.

Now for the fun part. Take your hydrogen peroxide, acetone, and sulfuric acid, measure them very carefully, and put them into drinks bottles for convenient smuggling onto a plane. It's all right to mix the peroxide and acetone in one container, so long as it remains cool. Don't forget to bring several frozen gel-packs (preferably in a Styrofoam chiller deceptively marked "perishable foods"), a thermometer, a large beaker, a stirring rod, and a medicine dropper. You're going to need them.

It's best to fly first class and order Champagne. The bucket full of ice water, which the airline ought to supply, might possibly be adequate - especially if you have those cold gel-packs handy to supplement the ice, and the Styrofoam chiller handy for insulation - to get you through the cookery without starting a fire in the lavvie.
Easy does it

Once the plane is over the ocean, very discreetly bring all of your gear into the toilet. You might need to make several trips to avoid drawing attention. Once your kit is in place, put a beaker containing the peroxide / acetone mixture into the ice water bath (Champagne bucket), and start adding the acid, drop by drop, while stirring constantly. Watch the reaction temperature carefully. The mixture will heat, and if it gets too hot, you'll end up with a weak explosive. In fact, if it gets really hot, you'll get a premature explosion possibly sufficient to kill you, but probably no one else.

After a few hours - assuming, by some miracle, that the fumes haven't overcome you or alerted passengers or the flight crew to your activities - you'll have a quantity of TATP with which to carry out your mission. Now all you need to do is dry it for an hour or two.

Mass murder in the skies: was the plot feasible?

Updated On: 8/17/06 at 05:28 PM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:30pm

Have you ever seen the film Loose Change? It's a documentary that goes into detail the ways that it's possible that 9/11 was a setup by the U.S. government. I think that this could be another case of that. not that i'm saying I believe that 9/11 was set up by our government, but it's something to consider, right?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:32pm

Allow me to insert a Cynthia McK (so abbreviated because the correct spelling of the full name just eludes him) reference so that we-all-know-who isn't obligated to:

Cynthia McK-Ned Lamont-Mary Jo Kopechne-buh-buh-but THE CLINTONS.

And, scene.

ETA It's a big leap to go from the actual bad things in the world, (terrorists attack US landmarks in jets; administration exploits of and creates fear in citizenry) to conspiracy theories like that, Geek. Both things in parentheses are true, adn what "this" could be is a fine example of the second clause.

Updated On: 8/17/06 at 05:32 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:34pm

Oh, please. geek, let's not start that again. We've been all through that with Andrew Lowe Watson.

This thread is about last week's incident, NOT 9/11.

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:36pm

i'm not talking about 9/11, I was just usiing it as a starting point to talk about this. It was just an analogy, kind of.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 5:43pm

To quote Joanne in RENT, "Well, it is less-than-brilliant" as far as analogies go.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:15pm

"Have you ever seen the film Loose Change? It's a documentary that goes into detail the ways that it's possible that 9/11 was a setup by the U.S. government."

Kink, USE THE SEARCH SCREEN.....you don't even wat to start that all up again....THANK YOU!

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:17pm

Jesus, I wasn't aware that I had to use the "search" function for every word I posted on the board. I'm so sorry that I made a passing mention of something, especially since, you know, a similar topic is the main topic of the thread.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:29pm

It's not really similar at all. One is about whether or not a supposed foiled plot "foiled" anything new at all.

The other is about wildly speculative and certifiably crazy conspiracy theories "explaining" an event that was tragic and actually happened.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:30pm

"documentary" is a subjective term as it applies to that movie.

[bta212]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:38pm

I, for one, see the analogy and see a legitimate overall theme: To what extent does our government use the specter of terrorism to give itself carte blanche to limit our freedoms, wage war, and stifle dissent and debate?

Was 9/11 an event in which the government either had an active role or a specifically fore-warned and passive role?

Was the recent air-terror scare a fabrication to maintain the atmosphere of paranoia and terror in which this kind of manipulation thrives?

Yes--one event took place and one was hypothetical, but skepticism regarding our government's true role/knowledge and beliefs is equally applicable.

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:40pm

That's pretty much exactly what I was trying to say. The link between the two is the fact that our government feels like it's able to manipulate us by crying "Terrorism!" in every possible situation. To garner support it seems like they're willing to do anything. That's all I was trying to point out.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:49pm

Do I believe 9/11 was terrorism? Yes. Do I think yelling "TERRORISM" is appropriate after an act of terrorism? Absolutely.

Do I necessarily buy the government's official version of all of the events that transpired before and up to and including 9/11? No.

Do I think the government has turned up the heat on the Fear Factor every time it is seen as politcally expedient for the administration to do so? Absolutely.

Do I think there is enough stuff ACTUALLY going on to warrent inquiry? Yes. Do I think spending time "investigating" whether the fall of the towers was a planned demoltion job? Absolutely not.

There's enough actual horrible stuff going on right before our eyes. Imagining such Loose Change craziness is a distraction from the real issues.

Now, excuse me, I have to go back to my 24 hour JonBenet's Killer Coverage.

Updated On: 8/17/06 at 06:49 PM

[iHeartMyGeek]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:52pm

Wow, it's not as if I was really trying to divert this thread from the original topic. I'm not the only one to make this connection. Several people on the major news networks have made the same statement. If you're going to chew me out for this then by all means chew out the people who thought that this terror plot in London might not have happened.

Of course terrorism is awful. And it should be diverted, and stopped, by any means necessary. But I think that the government is definitely overemphasizing this.

[bta212]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 6:57pm

Do I think that it is plausible that Barbara Bush (a.k.a.: the Vortex of Evil) would have a damage-control plan in place if Joe Lieberman lost his primary race due to his support of the wing-nut-war?

You're darn right I do.

Does generating a news story that makes everyone go--"Gee--maybe Joe L. was right to support the wing-nuts. Look--those dirty towel-heads are willing to blow up their own babies in order to kill our beautiful blonde children"--serve as effective damage control?

Sure does.

Maybe the wing-nuts are just lucky.

(Or maybe, they're right???)

Updated On: 8/17/06 at 06:57 PM

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 7:47pm

I have my doubts about the foiled plot's reality.

Terrorism is real, there's no doubt about that, but I do believe the government has used 9/11 and its aftermath of fear to generate more fear and curtail our liberties.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 9:34pm

They're taking away our liberties?

Do you realize what that sounds like, Miss PoundFoolish?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 8/17/06 at 10:26pm

There has been a whole helluva lot of subverting of the Constitution.