cowardly germans cave to fear

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 3:50pm

it's telling that while the opera shows the severed heads of jesus, buddha and muhammed, it's only one religion that had them worried...
we're all about peace...and beheading...but mostly peace

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 3:55pm

I can assure you that this has already found many very irritated reactions in Germany. And I'm not pleased about what happened at the "Deutsche Oper Berlin" either.

On the other hand I'm not too fond of Neuenfels' way of directing operas in the first place, he loves to shock people with rather disgusting effects. But that doesn't excuse it at all.

Edit: at that point I would actually like to see someone from the muslim representatives of Germany stand up and speak against that. I wonder how they'll react, they've always tried to not be associated with radical islamists... Updated On: 9/26/06 at 03:55 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:20pm

Here's the deal: it's an opera--an entertainment historically produced for the the wealthy. Most likely the people who would be most offended wouldn't even be in the audience, much like when the Fred Phelps Brigade (minus Fred) protests outside theaters in his area of the country.

However, Fred doesn't barge into offices and demand vengeance, doesn't burn anything down, and is generally a evil, vindictive, but ultimately harmless pr!ck. Muslim extremists WILL do those crazy things.

Of course, this all seems so foolish to me as a person of no faith, as does most of the history of the world.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:22pm

lil, i must insist that you let me make my own point. it gets very confusing for me.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:26pm

"Here's the deal: it's an opera--an entertainment historically produced for the the wealthy."

wrong...someone needs to do their research. Opera was done for the wealthy, AND the masses.......just different venues

Mozart's the Magic Flute was done for the average man, and worked it's way up to the rich. When it was written, it was deemed not fit for polite society.

Opera and Theater always were done for both...as it kept the masses quiet....generally, but you would never see the common man in the Estates Theater in Prague, for example, but rather a smaller dingy location

Updated On: 9/26/06 at 04:26 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:31pm

do they wear the hats with the horns on them in this, because i'm a sucker for a girl in a horny hat.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:33pm

would youy like to know where they'll stick those horns, papa? ;oP

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:34pm

they don't use them to prop up the heads of the infidels that dare defile muhammed?

[lildogs]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:35pm

Oh come on!

You're being a little particular Elphie, yeah, you have something of a point, but ALMOST without exception, opera as WE know it is produced for the elite. Ticket prices, location, IT'S IN A FOREIGN LANGUAGE...yes, there are English operas, but check your local opera house and see how many are produced--even in English, they are often unintelligible...all these things tend to turn away the poor and the ill-educated

Shakespeare was written for the common folk too, but history has raised him to such a level that he IS inaccessible to 80% of the population, both intellectually and financially. This might seem hard for US on BWW to grasp, but we aren't like most people...duh...

The point is, the people who would be most offended wouldn't attend the performance in the first place, at least to my way of thinking.

[FranklinShepard-Inc.]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 4:42pm

...yet in today's world of media, it is not the point anymore who is likely to attend anything. But as I already said that's a different point.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 5:10pm

Excuse me, FindingNamo from The Rapture Magazine. Will the severed head of Jesus be appearing on this week's show?

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 5:11pm

i'm sorry, from where did you say, ms. namo?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 5:18pm

The Rapture Magazine.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 10:47pm

And yet, there was hope, at the end of the AP article on this cowardly self-censorship:

The leader of Germany's Turkish Community said that while he could understand how the production could be seen as offensive, he also encouraged Muslims living in the West to accept certain elements of the traditions here, noting an opera production is not equivalent to a political point of view.

"I would recommend Muslims learn to accept certain things," Kenan Kolat told the online Netzeitung newspaper. "Art must remain free."
Berlin opera house cancels provocative Mozart production

[DG]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 10:50pm

Perhaps they'll backpedal and reinstate the performances - like that NYC theatre did when they caved to the Christians over CORPUS CHRISTI.

[JohnBoy2]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 10:58pm

Except, I don't think anyone in the NY theater thought they were going to be murdered over it. Do you?

[Elphaba]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:00pm

again lildogs....do your research, today opera is even moreso for the common folk, as almost anywhere but the US it is MUCH cheaper to go to them.

again, even during it's beginnings there were operas for the masses.....

I paid almost nothing in Prague in July to see Don Giovanni at the Estates Theater, where it premiered in 1787.......it was very cheap, and we were in the 6th row center......I've seen operas in Vienna, Frankfurt, Berlin, etc.....again, all reasonable for the average European.......the difference is in the US opera is not built-up to anyone but the elite. The average parent doesn't "get it." The arts in general are frowned upon by Joe Average. He doesn't want to think, but rather wants to watch TV...
In Europe it is different in that it is part of daily life.
In my opinion, in regards to the arts, Americans are usually hillbillies....

Updated On: 9/26/06 at 11:00 PM

[DG]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:17pm

True, JB2. I only know of radical Christians killing over abortion, not theatre.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:18pm

when the radical christians muster crowds of 100,000 chanting "behead the infidels" i'll put them in the same class.

[DG]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:23pm

No need to let this go the way of another 'their hatred is the worst' discussion. But I will say, having attended a rally in Texas of upwards of 80,000 screaming evangelicals who had been worked into a frenzy over 'sodomites' by their leader, I'm not sure I would have made it out of the parking lot if I had screamed out, "Hey, I'm one of THEM!"

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:34pm

see that's the difference, dg, you questioned whether you'd have made it out, in the midst of the other rally, i can guarantee you wouldn't have.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:47pm

when the radical christians muster crowds of 100,000 chanting "behead the infidels" i'll put them in the same class.



How about Radical Christian Pat Buchanan addressing the 1992 Republican convention?

George Bush is a defender of right-to-life, and lifelong champion of the Judeo-Christian values and beliefs upon which this nation was built.

Mr Clinton, however, has a different agenda.

At its top is unrestricted abortion on demand. When the Irish-Catholic governor of Pennsylvania, Robert Casey, asked to say a few words on behalf of the 25 million unborn children destroyed since Roe v Wade, he was told there was no place for him at the podium of Bill Clinton's convention, no room at the inn.

Yet a militant leader of the homosexual rights movement could rise at that convention and exult: "Bill Clinton and Al Gore represent the most pro-lesbian and pro-gay ticket in history." And so they do....

Friends, this is radical feminism. The agenda Clinton & Clinton would impose on America--abortion on demand, a litmus test for the Supreme Court, homosexual rights, discrimination against religious schools, women in combat--that's change, all right. But it is not the kind of change America wants. It is not the kind of change America needs. And it is not the kind of change we can tolerate in a nation that we still call God's country....

My friends, this election is about much more than who gets what. It is about who we are. It is about what we believe. It is about what we stand for as Americans. There is a religious war going on in our country for the soul of America. It is a cultural war, as critical to the kind of nation we will one day be as was the Cold War itself. And in that struggle for the soul of America, Clinton & Clinton are on the other side, and George Bush is on our side.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:50pm

i don't see him calling for death and behading in there.

[brdlwyr]

Posted: 9/26/06 at 11:56pm

papa, that is an ugly speech, do not defend it!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 9/27/06 at 12:02am

You may not have heard it Pat Buchanan's words, but those who crucified Matthew Shepard heard them in the hateful words of Buchanan and others, loud and clear.