the loquacious Dean

[Auggie27]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 10:11am

Dean has every right to speak, every reason to keep talking and to stay in the race.

However, in politics, style and grace in the face of loss are, if not everything, critical traits. Going on CNN and blathering on about how the voting Dems in 17 states are wrong, cowardly and in choosing Kerry really only propping up a pale version of Bush (pu-leeze) -- and that only Wisconsin, where he insists he'll win, has the cajones and true moral authority to oppose the current regime -- well, it's just further proof that this man wasn't up to the job he seeks. Elitism of one flavor isn't that much more attractive than another. His "outside DC" brand of "I'm So Special!" puts me way off, and is devoid of pragmatism. You'd think he'd never run for anything before. And didn't Gore's endorsement do wonders for him in Tenn? 3% of the vote.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 11:03am

i think ya'll need to be prepared for the fact that howlin' howie has no intention of going gentle into that good night. this is the man who was the golden boy, the chosen one, and they turned on him. the fact that he helped things along quite well on his own notwithstanding, ya gotta admit he got crucifed by a party and a media that decided that he could not win. i'm not disagreeing with them, but, to pretend that this was just the natural turn of events is the height of ostrich-dom. he got screwed.

all that aside for a moment, he's still got the 2nd most delegates in the race and there's a ways to go since kerry's got less than a quarter of the delegates necessary to win the nomination. now take dean, this is a man with a still not to be sneazed at following of kool aid gulping maniacs. he feels (rightly so, in my opinion) that he got screwed by his own party and the media (there's a novel idea, a democratic politician upset with the media). now if he somehow should manage to win wisconsin and a good percentage of it's 87 delegates, then he can make this a horserace again going into super tuesday.

the question is though, once he loses, how will he take it? and more importantly how will the deaniacs take it.

[EddieVarley]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 11:03am

Aug your politic posts are "Brill", looking forward to you following the upcoming election in earnest, and spot on about Dean, he needs to find some tact and grace...fast.

[ckeaton]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 11:24am

Just as I went over to the Bush camp with my tail between my legs after the McCain loss, the Dean-iacs will probably do the same... at least the ones that are passionate about the party.

As I understand though, he has a "new breed" of supporters who (in many cases) weren't previously involved in the democratic party. I suppose that many those supporters will be turned off, and pull themselves out of active participation in the race if he loses the nom.

Government is a grand thing, and politics are one of its necessities... bringing with it contention. I only wish that performance and stance on issues was more commonly debated. Too often it becomes a slapping fest.

Here's to an issues based campaign, not a mudslinging hissy-fit!

(Funny thing... the Boston Pops version of 'Stars and Stripes Forever' just came across my MP3... making my post more of a pontification. Sometimes I think my winamp is psychic.)

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 11:36am

A third party candidate supported by p.o.'d Deaniacs et al would certainly be harmful to the ABB (anyone but Bush) agenda. I've been guilty of contributing to that phenomenon myself in the past. Wasn't happy with either choice, voted for someone without a prayer of winning, and assisted the less desirable of the two viable candidates to be elected.

I'm not making that mistake again.

ABB '04

[Auggie27]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 6:29pm

Now papa, how did Dean get screwed by his own party?! Because seventeen states independently opted NOT buy the Time and Newsweek annointing "front runner" moniker and decided to cast pragmatic votes? And come on, the media didn't screw Dean, either. The media helped make him, and then, sorry Howie, if you live by the sound bite, baby, you die by the sound bite.

I'm with Ifitfloats. I've been stubbornly against the narrow range of the two party choices in the past -- Messrs Anderson, Nader, and even Perot, among others stirred the pot, to be sure. But I'm part of the rabid backlash against this regime's post 9/11 arrogance. Electability ain't nuthin' to sneeze at. I'd love to be in love with a candidate. Right now, I have to get over my loathing of the opposition. Expediency rules. We can get our team back, and THEN rediscover our idealism.

Updated On: 2/11/04 at 06:29 PM

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 6:40pm

oh, auggie, he got screwed. the powers that be decided he was not electable and thenset about to make sure that point was hammered home to the exclusion of pretty much anything else. plus those scream tapes that played only the feed from his mic and nothing from the room? that's like going to see nsync and only getting to hear joey's vocals. you're right though, live by the sound bite die by it. i think, ol' stoneface might have some problems of his own as things go along. he's banking on the anyone but bush sentiment, but to win a general election he's gonna need a lot more than that.

but since i like you durn dems, i'll share something. this is why i'm not sold on kerry for you guys. i probably should keep things like this to myself, but anyway..

http://slate.msn.com/id/2095311/

[Auggie27]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 7:03pm

Papa, pretty compelling stuff, and well documented. I sent it off to several friends. As is always worth noting, it's still early, no? All the projections have changed hourly, since the fickle ABB folk started the steady march behind the little black curtains.

The question, which we should start as a separate thread: What will be the October surprise that successfully props up Bush? (That may come in May?) Osama with a ball and chain on his bad leg? Probably not. The new Ghandi elected President of Iraq? A new VP in this divided union, after huntin' Dick steps down for "health reasons?" (No, not Miss Rice. Too Miss Gulch.) That's the part of the sense of theater in this election that intrigues me.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 8:31pm

Rice does not want the Veep spot

If GWB wins in November, she basically has already advised him she wants to get back to private life ( being called a murderer by some has a tendency to do it - she is also burned out ) . Powell has already says he is gone in a GWB 2 nd term so there go the african americans . Guess he would than be pillioried in the press for not having any african americans in his cabinet Damned if you do & damned if you don't

I would love to see the wacky boys from the left & right debate - Howard Dean & Alan Keyes.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 8:37pm

Maybe Condoleeza and Colin are tired of the lies. It's pretty telling if they want to jump ship that things are indeed rotten the state of Denmark.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 8:42pm

Dream on - People do get burned out in politics - Look at LBJ

Too bad Teddy ( Motor Mouth ) Kennedy hasn't got that affliction
A dirt nap is in order. If this offends some people, too bad . I learned this nastiness from others on this board

An observation re Gore . If he had been this animated when he ran in 2000, maybe he could have won his home state. The other alternative is that the boys in the white coats would have had the rubber truck waiting for him .

Ta Ta

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 8:55pm

not necessarily, jrb. it's not very often that a sec. state or a nat. sec. advisor hangs around for a second term. bubba had warren christopher and madeline albright at state and tony lake and sandy berger at nsc. so to leap to the conclusion that they're fed up just because they're not signing on for 4 more years is a bit of a stretch. those jobs burn you out. quick. especially nsa and especially in the kind of term that this one has been. who was the last sec. state who served 8 years, anybody know?

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 8:56pm

I wonder if Colin Powell would still be around now if he wasn't hanging in to make sure Powell Jr. doesn't lose his job.

[Auggie27]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 9:13pm

All of this voiced co-dependency to Condi's pain and suffering. Please. She has carved out her role in this regime, it's hers, she bought into it, she earned her rep, and history will determine if she was a key player in a debacle or a triumph. But if she's "burned out" already -- where the hell did she think she was working, anyway? Disneyland? -- it's because her vowel-chewing leader has trundled her out one too many times to do his bidding. To represent a POV he cannot sell as successfully. Cheney hunts and Condi sweats on camera, with pop beads and earrings. She just might develop the vapors and retire, but she chose this predicament.

[papalovesmambo]

Posted: 2/11/04 at 9:32pm

well, it seems that recent republicans are harder on their nsa. reagan had 5. bush the first, 2 in 4 years. clinton had 2. carter had one. ford, 1. nixon, 1 (although hank was both sec. state and nsa from 73-75, the man was a brahma bull). lbj had 2. kennedy, 1 (although he might have had a 2nd, thanks for making us guess on that one mr. oswald). eisenhower was the first to have an nsa (although truman created the nsc) and he had 4.

i'm not crying for condi, i'm just pointing out that it is a particularly stressful job even in peacetime and more so now.