there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#1there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 6:04pmsimilar to polyphony, but not so high-falutin...about songs that work together in harmony, as in YOU'RE JUST IN LOVE and OLD FASHIONED WEDDING. He was the king of those on B'way, and this term i think is more about popular music than classical, which uses things like "fugue" etcetera....any help? don't know how to Google it well.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#2re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:10pm
Quodlibet?
Irving certainly didn't invent this very old word, but I associate it with him, somehow.
Probably not what you're thinking of.
Q
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
#2re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:21pm
Reg - only you would think that wasn't "so high-falutin" 
#3re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:25pm
You're right. That was dumb.
Q
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
#4re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:29pm
I thought it was great!
But I'm still curious what the answer is.
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#5re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:39pm
high falutin is a lyric he'd use, prolly rhymed with "tootin' (your own horn)"
it is a word kinda like rhapsodic to my failing memory, damn i'm OLD
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#6re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:39pm
Both of those songs utilize Retrograde Inversion. Is it a kind of counterpoint? I'm not sure. Literally, Retrograde Inversion means "backwards and upside down."
But I don't think he coined the term, so it might not be what you're looking for.
"One no longer loves one's insight enough once one communicates it."
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
The opposite of creation isn't war, it's stagnation.
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#7re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 7:53pmTalisman (sic) might have hit it...i just didn't know the term was so old....i thought he did it, due to the humorous aspect (not something you find in classical music outside the Surprise Symphony until PDQ Bach). Maybe Berlin just popularized the word's use?
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
#8re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 8:28pm
Berlin referred to them as "contrapuntal duets," but it's just the adjectival form of the word "counterpoint"--I don't think he coined its use.
Merman said in an interview that she sang "contrapuntally"--that may be the coined word you're thinking of.
Q
Broadway Legend Joined: 11/3/05
#9re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 8:51pmI always thought of the Merm singing Cuntrapointedly - as in 'leading with' - but that might not be a technical term of common usage.
#10re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 9:41pm
PJ, are you sure you're not thinking of that Charlotte Rae bit about Tchaikovsky ("They express their love . . . contrapuntally.")?
Updated On: 11/16/09 at 09:41 PM
#11re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/16/09 at 10:50pm
Ah...yes...it was Charlotte Rae who used the word-- in an imitation of Ethel Merman!
Fiction and fact, artifice and reality--it all blends together, as Al Zeimer's Disease sets in.
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#12re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/17/09 at 5:10am
PJ did you that Cherry Jones/Swoozie Kurtz show about fact and fiction? J Mitchell choreo, songs by Hamlisch, i think play by Ephrons....
anyhoo, you guys have made this thread lovely. Thank you.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#13re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/17/09 at 9:01ami believe those two ladies played Mary THE GROUP McCarthy (sp?) and Lillian CHILDREN'S HOUR Hellman (sp?)....who sposedly had a bitter feud all their professional lives. Perhaps they sang "pontroon-****ally."
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
Jon
Broadway Legend Joined: 2/20/04
#15re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/17/09 at 11:07am
The great comic songwriter Tom Lehrer actually used the word "contrapuntally" in his song "So Long Mom (I'm Off to Drop the Bomb)":
While we're attacking frontally,
Watch Brinkally and Huntally,
Describing contrapuntally
The cities we have lost.
For you youngsters out there, "Brinkally and Huntally" is a reference to 1960's news anchors Chet Huntley and David Brinkley.
Updated On: 11/17/09 at 11:07 AM
#16re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/17/09 at 11:11amWe may need a whole Tom Lehrer thread. "I Wanna Go Back to Dixie" may be the funniest song I've ever heard.
#17re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/17/09 at 12:53pm
And I, of course, love "National Brotherhood Week":
Oh, the Protestants hate the Catholics,
And the Catholics hate the Protestants,
And the Hindus hate the Muslims,
And everybody hates the Jews.
#17re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/19/09 at 1:51pm
My favorite has always been "Who's Next?":
First we got the bomb, and that was good,
'Cause we love peace and motherhood.
Then Russia got the bomb, but that's okay,
'Cause the balance of power's maintained that way.
Who's next?
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#18re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/19/09 at 1:58pmI was always partial to "The Masochism Tango" and "Oedipus Rex"
#19re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/19/09 at 2:21pmLet's not forget "Poisoning Pigeons in the Park."
JohnBoy2
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/21/06
#20re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/19/09 at 4:17pmIs this BWW's answer to the Algonquin Round Table?
TxTwoStep
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/24/03
#21re: there is a word, i think invented by Irving Berlin
Posted: 11/26/09 at 12:51pmi WISH i could aspire to be at such a Round Table.
Will: They don't give out awards for helping people be gay... unless you count the Tonys.
"I guarantee that we'll have tough
times. I guarantee that at some point
one or both of us will want to get out.
But I also guarantee that if I don't
ask you to be mine, I'll regret it for
the rest of my life..."
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