A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Forum...

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:34pm

Semi-influenced by the Sondheim thread. Christmas, Chanukah, and my birthday are coming up around the same time, so which recording is better: the original, or the revival? Thaaaaanks. :)

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:38pm

Hey Gov... :)

Like many questions like that, it depends... as so much of show revolves around leading character Pseudelous, you might say it's a Zero Mostel vs. Nathan Lane decision. (I think both are brilliant!)

On the other hand, I find the supporting cast on revival MARKEDLY INFERIOR to original. (Mark Linn-Baker ain't no Jack Gilford, no matter how you slice it!) :)

Updated On: 10/12/04 at 07:38 PM

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:42pm

I don't know the revival cast recording, but I did see the show and as great as Nathan and a couple of the other cast members were, I found the show pretty flat overall, not nearly as funny as I remembered the film version with Zero, Jack Gilford et al. They all seemed to be WORKING really hard to sell the jokes and schtick and ultimately it wasn't the laugh riot it's supposed to be (one culprit: the direction was very heavy-handed, when it needed a lighter touch).

I'd say go with the original -- Zero and Gilford are hard to beat.

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:47pm

Margo,

I agree that the film version of FORUM retained all the slapstick, but unfortunately dumped nearly 90% of that beautiful Sondheim score.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:52pm

I know, it's awful isn't it? They actually allowed all these great veteran stage actors to come together and repeat their stage roles (which rarely happens as you know) and then the idiots in charge dump the score.

It's amazing how little respect Sondheim got pre- COMPANY & FOLLIES. Remember that the original Times review of WEST SIDE STORY failed to mention his lyrics at all !?!

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:56pm

Yes, and Merman had to be threatened with bodily harm to permit him to do the lyrics for GYPSY!

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:58pm

Not to mention Anyone Can Whistle.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 7:59pm

I saw Forum with both Nathan Lane and Whoopi Goldberg, and I actually preferred the production with Whoopi. She was a riot!!

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:01pm

The revival cast is a more complete recording of the score. It's been a while, but isn't there quite a bit left off the original?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:06pm

I was wondering that too Sueleen. I would bet that the revival preserved more of Sondheim score (revivals usually do), but I'll have to double check that.

It's funny that Sondheim had to be talked into accepting another "lyrics only" job by Oscar Hammerstein, who thought it would be good for him to work with a pro like Styne, as well as learn what's involved in writing for a star of Merman's stature.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:08pm

I saw the revival with Phil SIlvers in the title role & enjoyed it

[GovernorSlaton]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:11pm

According to Amazon, there is one newly recorded song for the revival.

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:13pm

I heard Silvers was great -- was that production recorded?

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:17pm

Regretfully, the Silvers production was a flop & not recorded

Updated On: 10/12/04 at 08:17 PM

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:17pm

1. Phil Silvers was indeed GREAT (he was FIRST choice for part in 1962 but turned it down) but that version was NOT recorded.

2. 1996 Recording Includes "The House of Marcus Lycus," a VERY FUNNY dance number featuring all the courteseans "strutting their stuff" for Pseudelous. I forgot about that wickedly funny number! Gov, it almost makes getting the 1996 CD JUST for that!

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:20pm

Sondheim tried hard on GYPSY, but Merman blatenly ignored ALL suggestions from him on how to sing lyrics!!!

If Jerry Robbins hadn't been around to make peace, that classic show might have closed before it ever opened!

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:23pm

Wasn't she still smarting from "Happy Hunting" being a flop, so she had no patience for inexperienced "kids," no matter how talented they were supposed to be?

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/12/04 at 8:23pm

Mr. Roxy,

I don't think it was a "flop" due to lack of attendance, but was cut short when Silvers had to withdraw due to illness and management could not find suitable replacement. . . does that sound about right?

[Jon]

Posted: 10/13/04 at 12:24am

By the way, the courtesan's dance music in THE HOUSE OF MARCUS LYCUS on the revival recording is TOTALLY DIFFERENT than the original version (the version in the published score). So, anyone out there who's planning on doing the show, DON'T tell your choreographer to work from the recording!

[Mary_Ethel]

Posted: 10/13/04 at 1:44am

EXACTLY, Margo.

[magruder]

Posted: 10/13/04 at 6:37am

Incidentally, the revival replaces the great original orchestrations by Irwin Kostal and Sid Ramin (featuring a string section of all violas - Ramin's idea!) with not especially distinguished new orchestrations by Jonathan Tunick.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 10/13/04 at 9:10am

To Mary Ethel

I stand corrected . It was a financial flop

By the way, the film version was filmed in Spain on part of the MASSIVE set built for "The Fall Of The Roman Empire " movie in the early 60's. The set was monstrous & was the largest set ever constructed for a movie. "Forum" used but a part of it. Instead of turning it into a tourist attraction ( outside Madrid ) the powers that be let it be demolished after 5 years. See the movie ( no one bought a ticket to see it in theaters as it laid a monumental egg ) on TV or video to see how big the Forum set was

A pity they took out most of his score. I consider it a movie with music & not a movie musical

Updated On: 10/13/04 at 09:10 AM