Barbra is no longer Evergreen.- Page 2

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 12/9/03 at 7:33pm

Babs has not been evergreen for awhile

I saw the original production of "Nuts" on broadway. Will have to pull out my old playbill to see who was in it. Looking at really old Playbills is a trip down memory lane as you see big stars whom were than unknowns. The same holds true for 60's TV especially The Twilight Zone. It is s treasure trove of performances by stars who are now big

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/9/03 at 7:41pm

...a wonderful actress named Anne Twomy. Sort of a Karen Akers type. I remember the show, too. All in the courtroom.

(I recently went back and looked at my EXECUTION OF JUSTICE program. Small roles were played by Stanley Tucci, Wesley Snipes, and the leads were John Spencer and Mary McDonald. An amazing night; the show closed in a acouple of weeks.)

I'll say no more, or the OT police will pounce.

[shermanslave]

Posted: 12/9/03 at 8:19pm

We all seem to agree that Barbra has lost some of her appeal. I saw her recently on Oprah and she just seemed like she was trying so hard to be kooky and unique, but it is so obvious that she is no longer either of those things. She is just as bland as the off-white sweater dress she wore on the show that day. I too am a big Barbra fan and hate that she is so lame these days. I wish we could see her do a musical movie where she could let herself go and be the natural character actress and comedian that we all know she can be.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 12/9/03 at 9:19pm

I think my favorite movie of hers is, "What's Up Doc?", but that might be because I absolutely adored Madeline Kahn in it. There was such a vibrancy about Barbra in her earlier recordings but somewhere along the line she forgot how to have fun. What a shame.

[Kristie-K]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 12:15am

I think you guys are all being to hard on Babs...She has always been what she is .....a funny girl who sings....no great beauty or great actress...but a fun entertainer who millons of people love....She has always played the same part, a Jewish Girl from Brooklyn.....Her singing voice sometimes hurts my ears, but I respect her as an artist...I don't own any of her CD's or any of her movies....but there is something about her that I love.....I love Miss Barbra and I am looking forward on seeing her on the screen again....Maybe this time playing her age......or even doing Sunset Blvd...How Great she would be in that role........

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 8:55am

Kristie-K and others, I must offer full disclosure: Despite my remarks above re her film lapses, I paid bigtime to see Streisdand at Madison Sq. Garden for the first concert tour, and regretted not a cent. A thrilling evening, when she gave untstintingly and again proved tha not only has she kept her voice supple and expressive, she can put together a whole show that delivers.

I think the show worked BECAUSE she's a control freak -- just as many of her films don't for the same reason. Her assumption that no one knows more than she -- her micromanagement of every detail -- tends to homoginize her movies. They bear the same stamp, and her reluctance to show the other side of her face, seemingly a small thing, speaks volumes. I personally think she'd benefit from trusting collaborators -- giving heself over to someone ELSE's vision. Being an actor for hire, even darng to play supporting parts. Remember when Shirley McLaine played Meryl's mom in POSTCARDS FROM THE EDGE? Then did STEEL MAGNOLIAS? Shirley trusted other directors, cinematographers, lighting men, etc and found new energy and range in her career. Can Barbra do that? Could she play a younger star's mom, as Bacall played hers in the otherwise drear MIRROR?

But hey, she didn't ask me.

Updated On: 12/10/03 at 08:55 AM

[orion59]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 9:14am

I think you're absolutely right, Auggie. Her micromanagement, control freak way of handling her concerts is what makes them wondreful shows. She knows how to adjust everything from sound equipment to carpeting in a venue to make her voice sound it's best.

Kristie-K, i don't think anyone is being too ahrd on Barbra. It's a fact that she is a talented woman who, when it comes to movies, does not know how to show her talents at their best. Her early movies, like What's Up Doc, were good. She is best in a comedy role or, as Auggie said, may be very good in a supporting role and being directed by someone else.

She just was never believable as a young girl who was supposed to look like a young boy, she was not believable as a high priced acll girl, the romantic beautiful lead. Every talented person has their limits of what they can do. When someone knows those limits and work within them, they end up doing much better work. It's not being harrsh or mean to point out, whne discussing any celebrity, what those limits are.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 9:16am

Auggie, I was one of the lucky ones who saw Barbras first-night concert at Madison Square Garden (during her FIRST 'Farewell Tour'), and you are right - it was a thrilling evening of song.

But I also was given tickets to two later shows. And not one thing was changed. Not one note. Not one inflection. Not one line in her script. Yes, she sounded magnificent in both those later shows. But they were completely cold and lifeless events, devoid of any passion or connection with her audience. They lacked an essential element of what ones goes to a concert like that FOR.

My dissillusion with her gained great momentum after that.

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 9:33am

Master, that reminds me of Mel Torme's story of seeing Judy Garland (I believe it was the Carnagie Concert). He was so blown away and wanted to come back the next night. She begged him to stay away, but he returned. He was shocked to find the exact same perfomance, right down to the tear falling down her cheek at the exact same moment during Over the Rainbow. He, as you with Babs, was disillusioned that what he saw was an "act"' but came away more respect for her as an "actor".

[Auggie27]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 9:41am

You know Master, when I listen to the Madison Sq. Garden concert on CD, I really hear what you're addressing. When the audience sends loving response back at her, she doesn't allow herself to bask in the power of the connection. Seemingly, the reason one performs live -- to communicate. She hurries to shush them (us), as though we're slowing down her pace. We're getting her off schedule. It's a show, not a bus schedule, and she's sharing, not driving. To be fair, she's gone on record, owning her control, and admitting that live performance demands a kind acceptance of sponteneity. Yet she left little to chance, and it's almost sad, the way she can't absorb the love that is returned to her in that concert. Again, this is only obvious on multiple hearings -- we were all happy campers that night. But since we're explicating the Streisand MO, Master's point is very, very relevant.

If she asked me: Id say, her work needs to take her back to the Bon Soir spirit, to find some creative ... spark ... that set her on the road to stardom. She used to try anything and everything to get results. Now, she "knows." It just proves: every artist can trust his or her instincts TOO much.

Every now and then I think (post Brolin) it all means a lot less to her, and perhaps it does. Then I see somethinglike the OPrah appearance, and realize she's hardly down for the count--and not in her own mind. Why doesn't she make a film with the husband? He's no deNiro, but he's ... loose. I'd love to see some of that looseness engage her.

[MasterLcZ]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 9:59am

Oh, Auggie!!! One of the sugarplums dangled at Barbra when it looked as if there was a possibility of her still starring in the television MAME was to cast Brolin as Burnside. But like Sinatra co-starring with her in the FUNNY GIRL film, and the whisper of a new GYPSY film in the mid 1970s, it was too good an idea to ever come to pass.

And you got it - she "knows", she's done it all, she's bored. She got her "I want to be a director" mania out of her system a long time ago and really can't be bothered. Except for Photo ops like the cover of THE HOLLYWOOD ALBUM, where she looks like a kid playing dress-up - "See? I'm a DIE-RECK-TORR, too!"

(hi, Suleen! :))

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 12:33pm

Barbra has said that she would like to act in a movie that she does not direct, or direct a movie in which she does not act. I think the problem is, Directors may be afraid to hire her as an actress because there is always the threat of her taking over. I'm trying to think who's mom she could play should she take that step...? Jennifer Aniston's maybe. I think Jennifer does sort of look like Barbra did in her "What's Up Doc Era".

I heard that the Mame movie is going through with Cher in the title role and Barbra is Producing it. ?

And for the record, Nuts is one of my favorite movies. I don't care who doesn't like it.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 12/10/03 at 3:43pm

In the end, it may be because she has nothing left to prove, which always seemed one of her prime motivating factors. When you look at what she has accomplished, just in quantity, if not quality, she's amazing. Arguably, she must at least tie with Garland as the Greatest all-around Female Entertainer ever. Garland may have had greater depth and more soul but Barbra has had more variety and acommplishments in her career. And being an old-school entertainer in this day and age must be extremely frustrating. If it takes 15-17 years to get one movie produced that you believe in (Yentl) or record executives consider an album of Sondheim songs, for gosh sakes, "revolutionary" and uncommercial (compared to Eminem?), it's a surprise anybody gets ANYTHING done in Hollywood. I suppose you pick your projects very carefully, knowing it's going to be an uphill battle all the way, so you better damn well LOVE what you're gonna do. That's the impression I get from La Streisand.

[rlbgbc]

Posted: 12/11/03 at 8:57am

Ah, in comparing Garland and Streisand (and no argument about one aspect of both: their indescribable voices), there are two differences that immediately spring to my mind.

1. To me, the moniker of "greatest all around entertainer" carries with it the charge of being a triple threat. While Garland was not primarily a dancer, she did dance. Hasn't it been written that she was the only partner Astaire ever had where you watched her instead of him, e.g. "Midnight Choo Choo" in EASTER PARADE? Another example of her skill is "The Portland Fancy" number with Gene Kelly in SUMMER STOCK.

As for Streisand, the only really "dance-y" thing I remember her doing is "Swan Lake" in FUNNY GIRL with Tommy Rall. And that number is so chopped up and edited in the final cut of the movie that it boggles the mind. Also, it was meant to be a parody, and it is. A hilarious parody.

Summarization: Streisand "moves well" (and even that's up for debate), while Garland, when challenged, could rise to the occasion.

2. Garland, to me, exuded warmth when she was in top form in both film and on stage. "Have Yourself...Christmas" in ST. LOUIS is a classic, as are scads of her other movie numbers. Streisand seems to be, for lack of a better word, a more "selfish" performer. Again, not to say she's awful, but the style is just different. In her early TV specials -- heck, even in her recent concerts -- I got the feeling that she was mainly performing for herself, and the audience just happened to be there. Garland, however, was always ALL about the audience.

End of diatribe. I enjoy them both immensely, but if it's "all around entertainer" we're talking about, Garland wins it hands down. Updated On: 12/11/03 at 08:57 AM

[QueenS]

Posted: 12/11/03 at 10:02am

Put me in the ranks of people who admire Barbra's acting and directing. However, you may not be able to tell that from the abomination which is the 70's version of "Star is Born."

My favorite version of that movie was the "first" one (not including "What Price Hollywood" on which all of them were based). Janet Gaynor and Fredric March are splendid.

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 12/11/03 at 3:21pm

YEAH for Judy! I love her movies. And you're right...when she was dancing with Fred Astair, I focused on what she was doing, not him. Not so much when she danced with Gene Kelly (there it was sort of split between who I would watch), but she really outshone Fred in Easter Parade.
She really was such a triple threat. I couldn't pick a favorite Judy movie if I tried. I love them all so much.
She shows her best singing in "Meet Me in Saint Louis".
She shows her best Dancing in "Summer Stock" and "Easter Parade".
She shows her best Acting in "A Star is Born" "The Clock" and "Judgement at Nuremberg".
And she shows a litte more of her true self in "I Could Go on Singing". I always found it very ironic that this was the title of her last movie ever.

Updated On: 12/11/03 at 03:21 PM