Eder and Wildhorn - Hartford Courant

[KB]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 10:52am

http://www.ctnow.com/entertainment/stage/hc-wildhorneder.artaug10,0,5286985.story?coll=hc-headlines-arts

Which of Linda Eder's songs are from this one already? I know people that have worked with them in the past, and they truely are as nice as they seem.

KB

[MusicMan]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 11:13am

She's alright but he is woefully talent-free.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 11:15am

Not everyone shares your opinion re Mr Wildhorn. Eder is "alright". Not exactly generous with praise are we. You missed your calling. You make John Simon sound like Mr Charm. This is what makes the world go round . Everyone is intitled to their opinion, no matter how wrong it might be

Updated On: 8/10/03 at 11:15 AM

[MusicMan]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 2:11pm

No, they're not mediocre because I say so. They're mediocre because they are.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 7:20pm

Wrong again Music Man - It is your opinion. The fact that his shows play worldwide means more than your opinion & other misguided souls called critics. If you do not like them, don't buy their product (be it cd's or shows). My wife & I await Camille Claudel

Updated On: 8/10/03 at 07:20 PM

[MusicMan]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 9:59pm

The only reason those dreadful shows play worldwide is because nature (and show business) abhors a vacuum. And just as critics of erudition and passion are the standard-bearers of excellence, Wildhorn and company represent mediocrity and banality. You and your wife are welcome to them. 'Nuff said. Updated On: 8/10/03 at 09:59 PM

[ChrisLovesShows]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 10:18pm

Anyhoo....back to KB's question. The song "Gold," which is already released on Linda Eder's 2002 CD of the same name, is a song written for this show.

Updated On: 8/10/03 at 10:18 PM

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 11:04pm

I've yet to see anything from Wildhorn that says he understands the true structure of musical theater. He does not give his characters a musical language, nor do his scores show any thematic or structural threads. They're nothing more than a series of songs strung together which is NOT the same as composing a score to a musical. Which isn't to say people don't like the songs, that's certainly their prerogative, as is liking the shows. But to say Wildhorn is showing the same depth of musical craft that others in the field are is simply inaccurate. In that regard, his scores are not detailed, nor are they musically interesting, again, they're just a bunch of songs strung together that push along a story and, in fact, generally do not much more than just illuminate character motivation or create vague emotional images. He tends to resort to obvious power songs and over-zealous ballads, rather than exploring the range of his characters and his stories in new or inspired ways.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 8/10/03 at 11:59pm

Okay....MusicMan you are entitled to your opinions but so am I.

Linda is one of the kindest and most caring talent around. I saw her do Jekyll and Hyde in Sacramento when I worked there and endeded up sitting in the back row every night. I have seen her concerts five times and saw Jekyll in NYC another four. She may not be a Judi Dench or a Patti LuPone. But her concerts are attended by all ages and types. And she is always gracious and is generous with her time.
And when I met Frank in NYC after Linda's christmas concert she was doing, he was very interested to talk to me and to listen to what I thought about his music.
People may not like his music or style but he has gotten people into the theaters. People saw Scarlet Pimpernel and Jekyll and Hyde and they are all over the smaller theaters now. And maybe they will make just one more person want to see another show and that is why the actors and the musicians and the singers do it all in the frist place.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 8/11/03 at 12:02am

Give me the talented bastard every time.

[Peter]

Posted: 8/11/03 at 1:31am

I've thought for some time that Wildhorn gets a lot of unneccessary abuse. I've heard all the complaints...big generic pop ballads...songs that don't define character or advance plot, etc. In my opinion, it all boils down to snobbery..he's taken over the throne from ALW as the composer currently in vogue to hate by some people. (And no I'm not a teen...or a new theatre fan..I've seen many, many broadway shows since the first one I saw..Sweeney Todd).

The same people I see complain about all the big power pop ballads admit to liking shows like Chess, Side Show and Dreamgirls which are all drawn from the same type of pop ballad heavy material. This is not to say that there aren't some differences in quality..it's just that I really can't see how people can hate Wildhorn and love these shows..with no in between and use as justification hating Wildhorn's big power pop ballad sound.

And you'd think listening to these critics that every single number in a Wildhorn show is pop-oriented, with no theatrical roots. Off the top of my head..how about "Into the Fire"...and "The Creation of Man" from the Scarlet Pimpernel? Theres no mistaking that these are purely theatrical songs. And there certainly are different musical themes given to the major characters in the show. But see if you are close-minded in regard to Wildhorn, you just won't see this.

I will admit that Wildhorn's shows don't always work. In fact, I really only liked the revised version of Scarlet Pimpernel. But I find that his problem is just finding the right collaborators, particularly in the area of lyrics, direction and book.

It seems really odd to me that for someone who is so maligned in the theatre community...Camille Claudel sold out at Goodspeed in record time. In fact, there are a few seats left that the theatre is now asking a $500 membership to be able to purchase them. It seems to me that Wildhorn could be capable of bridging that ever-widening gap between pop culture and theatre if hes given half a chance. I honestly believe that broadway needs the ALW's and Wildhorns to attract a new audience to broadway, many of whom will go on to discover the Sondheims and Hammersteins..

[JohnPopa]

Posted: 8/11/03 at 8:48am

"I've thought for some time that Wildhorn gets a lot of unneccessary abuse. I've heard all the complaints...big generic pop ballads...songs that don't define character or advance plot, etc. In my opinion, it all boils down to snobbery..he's taken over the throne from ALW as the composer currently in vogue to hate by some people. (And no I'm not a teen...or a new theatre fan..I've seen many, many broadway shows since the first one I saw..Sweeney Todd)."

Why is it always snobbery? Maybe I just pay attention to theater craft and would rather he wrote stronger work. And, in a discussion of theater craft, to say he's working on the same level as other composers is to dismiss the idea of discussing craft. I don't like Sondheim's work in the slightest most of the time but I can still discuss the craft he puts into his scores and see what he's attempting to do.

"The same people I see complain about all the big power pop ballads admit to liking shows like Chess, Side Show and Dreamgirls which are all drawn from the same type of pop ballad heavy material. This is not to say that there aren't some differences in quality..it's just that I really can't see how people can hate Wildhorn and love these shows..with no in between and use as justification hating Wildhorn's big power pop ballad sound."

Well, exactly, there ARE differences in quality. 'Dreamgirls' especially uses its musical style as part of the dramatic conceit. If its any consolation I'm as dismissive of 'Side Show' as I am of Wildhorn's shows. There are some really well-written parts of 'Chess' and some pop ballads. But, as you said, it really is a question of quality. It's one thing to write some power ballads and another thing to OVER-use them, to the point that it seems to be the only trick you have up your sleeve and the only way you have to illustrate character.

"And you'd think listening to these critics that every single number in a Wildhorn show is pop-oriented, with no theatrical roots. Off the top of my head..how about "Into the Fire"...and "The Creation of Man" from the Scarlet Pimpernel?Theres no mistaking that these are purely theatrical songs. And there certainly are different musical themes given to the major characters in the show. But see if you are close-minded in regard to Wildhorn, you just won't see this."

There are no substantial musically constructed tones or themes in Wildhorn's scores. It's not being close-minded, it's knowing how different musicals are written. Again, just dismissing what everyone says about the man's work doesn't make you any more right than the 'close-minded' people who don't like his work.

"I will admit that Wildhorn's shows don't always work. In fact, I really only liked the revised version of Scarlet Pimpernel. But I find that his problem is just finding the right collaborators, particularly in the area of lyrics, direction and book."

Well, that's true of anyone in the business.

"It seems really odd to me that for someone who is so maligned in the theatre community...Camille Claudel sold out at Goodspeed in record time. In fact, there are a few seats left that the theatre is now asking a $500 membership to be able to purchase them. It seems to me that Wildhorn could be capable of bridging that ever-widening gap between pop culture and theatre if hes given half a chance. I honestly believe that broadway needs the ALW's and Wildhorns to attract a new audience to broadway, many of whom will go on to discover the Sondheims and Hammersteins.."

This is all irrelevant to the discussion of his musical craft. Sure, he's fairly popular but that doesn't mean he can't be criticized as thoroughly as anyone else. I'm not against anyone contributing to the Broadway canon but just because you like it, doesn't make it good. There is a craft to be discussed and analyzed and, frankly, Wildhorn doesn't get it, no matter how many songs some people might like.