Effie White -- Does She Have To Be "Heavy?" — Page 3

Truth - I saw Kelly in Atlanta for the Women of Soul concert about a month ago or so and she looked like she didn't even want to be there. She sounded fine but the passion was non-existent.

rKrispyt - I think I'm in agreement with those who see Effie as a "large woman." I often find myself drawn to the talents in the industry who are shunned because they're not considered "marketable." The story of DREAMGIRLS IS the MTV story (as someone mentioned earlier). However, if they do find a talented actress/singer who isn't necessarily overweight but isn't considered "marketable" for the part, I think I can accept that. But the weight issues adds more considerable depth. Many plus-sized or "regular" women will see the story and maybe see a bit of themselves.

And let me just clarify what I said in my initial post. I'm not saying that Effie CAN'T be or SHOULDN'T be overweight, just that she doesn't HAVE to be. I agree that it can add some very interesting dimensions (literally) to the character if she is at least a little "plump" (as someone else said, it's great shorthand to explain her firing), but I was just making the point that some of the best Effies weren't overweight and the show works just as well with them in the lead role (I don't have the review -- it's not online and not in "Hot Seat" -- but, a couple of Julia's oldest friends separately told me that Frank Rich re-reviewed the show when McGirt did it and said something to the effect of that she was the definitive Effie and better than Holliday).

I really just want the best singer/actress available to do the role. Part of the reason I prefer an unknown is that I cannot think of a single (overweight or not) black female major celebrity who would be ideal casting for Effie -- vocally at least. There are lots of good singers out there who have followings, but none of the ones on the celebrity A-list or even B- or C-list compares singing-wise to Holliday or McGirt or Lillias White. That kind of voice is just not what sells records anymore (Aretha's and Patti Labelle's and Gladys Knight's heydays were more than a generation ago). So since there isn't a "name" actress/singer out there who can do the role, then forget about names and just go out and find the best possible person. After all, Condon already has his "names" for box office insurance (Beyonce, Eddie Murphy, et al), so he can afford to cast a complete unknown as Effie.

Holliday herself got discovered while she was still singing gospel in obscurity. While on tour with "A Chorus Line" a dancer named Jamie Rodgers happened to turn on the tv in his hotel room one Sunday morning while the show was in Houston. As he was flipping channels, he stopped when he heard a young 19 year old girl singing gospel on a local church telecast. He'd never seen a talent like this one and was completely bowled over by her voice. He immediately called his friend Vinnette Carroll back in New York, whom he knew was struggling to find a replacement for the great Delores Hall as the lead singer in a proposed Broadway return engagement of her gospel musical "Your Arms Too Short To Box With God." The show was then on tour and Hall was ready to leave after having done the role for over 2 years. The tv station was contacted, an unknown Jennifer Holliday was located and it was arranged for her to fly to New York to audition for Carroll.

Holliday had never been out of Houston before, knew NOTHING whatsoever about Broadway or musicals or theatre and had no idea that this trip was about to change her life forever. When she met Carroll at the audition, Holliday seemed quiet and shy and demure and Carroll remembered thinking "Oh dear, there's no way this girl is going to be able to do this role." Holliday started singing with such power and passion and intensity that it brought Carroll to her feet by the end. Suffice to say, she got the part. Once the show opened, the buzz around Broadway about his new young plump little girl with an enormous voice reached Bennett's ears, leading him to go see her and the rest is history.

I hope Condon knows that story and realizes that his ideal Effie is not reading Backstage or Variety or knows/cares anything at all about Broadway musicals or musical films. She's singing gospel somewhere at a church as we speak and might pop up on a local broadcast some Sunday morning. Had Jamie Rodgers overslept that Sunday, Jennifer Holliday would very probably still be in Houston and singing in that same church. I hope Condon's scouts and assistants do their jobs and find that next great Effie wherever she is out there in the country.

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Since this has become a thread with some great information from Margo I thought I'd post a link to Frank Rich's review. He really captures the excitement of the original broadway production. It should be required reading for anyone who hasn't seen the show.
New York Times

Great link...I have never forgotton the opening to that review (which is more than I can say for any of Brantley's.

Thanks, Margo, for explaining the weight gain Holliday had; I saw the show 3 times in the first 10 months, and I could not figure out what was going on with that! Right after it opened, Holliday was slightly overweight, but not "fat"; by the third time I saw her, she had put on at least 75 pounds, which did indeed shift the emphasis of the character. The plausibility of Curtis' initial attraction to her became suspect, for one thing.
But how can I describe the experience of that number? I could not understand how she could do it night after night.

BTW--for me, the show never does fully recover from it; I wonder what it would have been if Effie had "dissappeared" in Act II?

no offense, but Lillas is way to old now; she first played Effie 1987.

Irony--I think that Loretta Devine is playing Missy~

I think to have the most impact with the audience, Effie cannot be someone that America has seen before. Otherwise, you are seeing Effie with overtones of American Idol, or other Broadway/TV/Movie experiences clouding your experience. If you don't know anything about the person portraying the character, I believe it's easier to take an "unencumbered" ride.

For example, I think with the move "The Hours," if you didn't KNOW that Nicole Kidman was starring in that, your perceptions throughout the movie would have been different. A friend of mine didn't know anything about "The Hours" and entered the theatre after the opening credits. It was during the closing credits that she saw that Nicole was starring and she was floored. It's difficult, as an audience member, to not carry some of the "history" with you when viewing.

Secondly, known or unknown, the actress who is hired to portray Effie NEEDS to make the music her own. Jennifer Hudson (who has a FABULOUS voice) seems to be attempting to recreate Jennifer Holliday's interpretation of the music. That is, I think, a key to failure for this endeavor. While much of the public will be wanting to hear Jennifer Holliday's musical interpretation again, any attempt an actress makes to recreate that will be difficult because all of those grunts and runs seem to have a purpose and meaning behind them, which is why they work for Jennifer Holliday. Without that subtext, it's hard to understand why you are listening to the vocal pyrotechnics.

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Would Queen Latifah work?

Latifah? Effie is supposed to be 18. Margo's right, Condon is going to have to go to little churches down South to find someone perfect. There is NO ONE that's a name that can handle the role, and I would much rather see someone be discovered for the role, anyways.

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Although I was rooting for Tarralyn Ramsey to get an audtion at least , but if it came down it I want to see an unknown casted. My reason being just like Hanna said if they cast someone well known we'll already have preconceptions of them.Much like every one has with Beyonce playing Deena. But if someone totaly new to the entertainment industry is casted well only think of them as Effie. Just like Angela Basset when she was casted as Tina Turner she was praticaly unkown except I think she may have did MalcomX and The Jackson Five tv movie before that but everyone just accepted her as Tina Turner because there was nothing else to base her on. Plus I want to see a star in the making. Everyone talks about leaving the Imperial theater after seeing Jennifer Holliday and knowing they had just witnessed magic and I want that feeling.

margo margo margo....I must first say that I have been reading this message boards for months and never registered even though I've wanted to commet etc....but after reading your posts about my absolute favorite show , Dreamgirls, I had to give in. First, thank you for all of you insights and history of the show. BUT IM GONNA BE GREEDY AND ASK FOR MORE INFO....IVE BEEN READING EVERYTHING OVER AND OVER AND NOW I WANT TO KNOW EVERYTHING BEING THAT THERE IS LIMITED AS TO NO INFO ONLINE ABOUT THE SHOW IN DEPTH...I WOULD LOVE EITHER ANOTHER POST OR EMAIL ABOUT MORE JENNIFER HOLLIDAY INFO WITH THE SHOW ETC...I KNOW IM BEING GREEDY OR IRKSOME BUT I'M HUNGRY FOR MORE INFO MARGO....FEED ME FEED ME ! THANK YOU

very brilliant margo, I dont mean to argue your brilliant thinking but in a production a of DreamGirls I saw, the synopsis was described inside the playbill and said that one of the reasons effie was kicked out of the group was because of her figure. Her looks didn't match the groups new look so they had to stay with the times and style. Also in the beginning of the play the characters exchange this bit of dialogue:
A: my dress is too tight
B: you have the same dress as i do?
A: yea
B: you have the same wig as i do?
A: yea
B: then shut up