Fred Astaire dancing in 5/4 time

[marknyc]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 1:13am

I thought it was so cool that "Coffee Time" was danced in 5/4 time but played in 4/4 time, that I made a little educational video explaining it. Has any other dance number mixed time signatures like this?

Also, it's the first stereo version ever.

Mark

http://vimeo.com/4909406 Updated On: 5/30/09 at 01:13 AM

[Tom's Cat]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 8:20am

That was terrific. I have no training at all in music or dance so the concept of 4/4 and 5/4 time didn't mean anything to me. Just having those numbers appear on the screen in time with the music and dance was a clearer explanation than any words could do. Thank you Mark for doing this!

(I'm also rather stunned to discover a Fred Astaire clip I've never seen before. Apparently this number was cut when I saw the film on TV. I really should try to get the DVD's. I wonder what else TV editing has kept from me!)

Updated On: 5/30/09 at 08:20 AM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 8:30am

It's beautiful but I'm not sure I understand: I get the part about the music--that's easy. But what exactly does it mean that they're dancing in 5//4 time?

[Tom's Cat]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 8:41am

Well - here's my (totally ignorant) reading -
The music is playing 4 beats per measure while the dancers are moving at 5 beats per measure. They start together but the dancers are working in an extra beat. It gave me a little bit of a frenetic movement in the dance.

(And my apologies to the musically trained here because I truly don't know what I'm talking about! The last time I had any training in music was well over 40 years ago)

Updated On: 5/30/09 at 08:41 AM

[OldBroad]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 10:09am

one of the highlights of my life was getting to dance (albeit very briefly) with fred astaire when i was young. he was the most modest, gracious man i'd ever met and my first idol, having become addicted to "swingtime" on the old million dollar movie tv show in nyc as a kid. they don't make them like that anymore.

[marknyc]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 12:37pm

That's right, Tom's Cat. The easiest way to understand the dance is to try to clap along with the dancers. You'll find that you have to count ONE two THREE four five, ONE two THREE four five, in order to stay in time. Then stop clapping and just listen to the orchestra and you'll see they're playing the typical ONE two THREE four, ONE two THREE four.

How they were able to keep an opposing beat while they danced, and how Loring was able to get them to even attempt it, is beyond me!

[Felm_heart]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 1:33pm

That is really incredible. Maintaining that rhythm could not have been easy. It was also great to see that video of "Together Wherever We Go." Thanks Mark!

[noradesmond]

Posted: 5/30/09 at 2:17pm

That's great. I believe that dances in those days were filmed to a sort of metronome (beats only) and the music added later. That is what I seem to recall from some making-of type footage on The BandWagon. That would certainly make it easier to maintain that 5/4 rhythm. But it still is a great effect and way ahead of it's time - as was much of Yolanda and The Thief.

[marknyc]

Posted: 5/31/09 at 6:21am

You're probabaly right - the "Making of" feature on the WSS DVD shows the dance assistant counting beats for the Rumble, so I'm sure someone was counting for this number, too.

But I'd love to have heard Eugene Loring pitching this to Fred and Arthur Freed: "Okay, so we'll have the orchestra playing a very standard 4/4 number, but you and Lucille will dance to it in 5/4 time - won't that be great?"

They must have thought he was nuts.

[Tom's Cat]

Posted: 5/31/09 at 7:48am

I had no idea Lucille Bremer was a dancer - let alone one who was up to this challenge!

And OldBroad - What an incredible memory for you! How old were you? What did you dance to?