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#1

How Are They Musicals?

I always wondered how Les Mis, and The Phantom are musicals with them being mostly sung through. Just wandering because I'm watching "The Little Prince" on PBS.
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#2

re: How Are They Musicals?

huh?
Grace: I just gave a quarter to a homeless man. I think it was Johnny Depp.
#4

re: How Are They Musicals?

Okay......I was wondering.......could these shows be done by opera companies?
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#5

re: How Are They Musicals?

unmasked- I believe it was the Met(could be wrong though) that just did SWEENY TODD, so I do believe they could be done, but I wouldn't expect it.
David walked into the valley With a stone clutched in his hand He was only a boy But he knew someone must take a stand There will always be a valley Always mountains one must scale There will always be perilous waters Which someone must sail -Into the Fire Scarlet Pimpernel
#7

re: How Are They Musicals?

he said "a little prince"

A LITTLE PRINCESS is a movie, which was turned into a musical not too long ago.
Grace: I just gave a quarter to a homeless man. I think it was Johnny Depp.
#8

re: How Are They Musicals?

oh haha, my bad. That explains my confusion.
#9

re: How Are They Musicals?

When Jesus Christ Superstar and Evita were first recorded they were called operas. However, the word "musical" gets more people buying tickets, so the sung-through shows became known as musicals. Contact played off-Broadway as a "dance play" -- the more commercial word "musical" was used when it moved to Broadway. If the word "ballet" had the commercial pull of "musical" I'm sure that's what Movin' Out would have been called.
#10

re: How Are They Musicals?

Sweeney Todd played at City Opera, not the Met.

And just because something is sung-through, doesn't make it an opera (eg "Caroline, or Change").
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#11

re: How Are They Musicals?

And also, note that not all operas are sung-through (eg, "The Magic Flute" and other Mozart operas).
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie [http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/] "The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#13

re: How Are They Musicals?

Since when has LES MIS been a rock opera? You're confusing that with "Pop opera" or something of that nature. It's not a rock opera....


"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson
#14

re: How Are They Musicals?

The little prince is a children's book by Antoine de St.Exuperay(Spelling is wrong im sure ). It is the story of a little prince who lives on his own moon with his friend who happens to be a very needy rose. He leaves his rose and "planet hops" meeting different unusual characters on various planets before landing on earth. there he meets the narrator of the story and a friendly fox. He then tries to get home to his rose (the one thing he "tamed"). The book actually has one of my favorite quotes: "It is the time wasted on your rose which makes it so important." (some copies say "dedicated to" instead of "wasted on" but i like wasted better).

Anyways it was made into a musical a while back and flopped majorly. (I want to say a young Anthony Rapp was involved) This is a completely different musical version that was on PBS tonight at 9. I unfortunately missed it but would love to hear some impressions of it.
#15

re: How Are They Musicals?

Actually, Les Miserables is and has always been known as an Operetta.
"Do you know what pledge time is, Andrew"? said the PBS Executive. "Yes", Lloyd Webber replied. "My 50th birthday special must be one program that gets done a lot." "No", mused the man from PBS heedlessy. "Not so much. Our Stephen Sondheim Carnegie Hall concert. That's a big one." Spoons, forks and knives seemed suddenly to suspend their motion in horror, all around the table.
#16

re: How Are They Musicals?

What would Tanz der Vmapire in Germany be classfied as?
The greatest show of all time, aside from Sweeney Todd?
(Methinks that's it's classification lol)
Who can explain it, who can tell you why? Fools give you reasons, wise men never try -South Pacific
#17

re: How Are They Musicals?

"Actually, Les Miserables is and has always been known as an Operetta."

First I've heard of it. Les Miserables is nothing like Operetta.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
#19

re: How Are They Musicals?

When I took a workshop with Dave Clemmons and others from the cast, this is how it was described. It is also mentioned in the hardcover Les Mis book.
"Do you know what pledge time is, Andrew"? said the PBS Executive. "Yes", Lloyd Webber replied. "My 50th birthday special must be one program that gets done a lot." "No", mused the man from PBS heedlessy. "Not so much. Our Stephen Sondheim Carnegie Hall concert. That's a big one." Spoons, forks and knives seemed suddenly to suspend their motion in horror, all around the table.
#20

re: How Are They Musicals?

Actually, Les Miz is a "sung-thu-pop-rock-operetta".
yum...pop rocks.
#21

re: How Are They Musicals?

This is a thorny subjuct to which there is no real answer. Several operas have spoken dialogue (Magic Flute, Abduction from the Saraglio etc). Many "through sung" shows can be called opera (Caroline or Change, etc.). "Opera" does not exclude any style of singing or staging. There is much fine acting in opera, just as there is much bad acting in musicals-so that dosn't seem to be a criterion either. I guess you could say "opera" is in the mind (or ear) of the listener.

Just my opinion, I may be wrong.

TWOGAAB "A Class Act" will never die!

Updated On: 4/7/05 at 10:32 AM

#22

re: How Are They Musicals?

Operettas are usually not sung-through, are more comic than dramatic, and most often the plot revolves around a central romance or legend. The music is lighter than opera, but is usually technically more difficult than can be found in musicals and more firmly rooted in classical music. How did they explain Les Miserables as fitting into the genre of Operetta when it resembles NOTHING of operettas at all? Perhaps they're trying to create a new genre just for Les Mis? It should be in the same category as the sung-through dramatic shows that came before it - musicals. Just because they are sung-through, doesn't make them operas or operettas. It is the style of music, the dramatic structure and the form in which it is presented that makes it a musical. "Pop opera" may come the closest to describing dramatic sung-through pop musicals.

Examples of operettas:

Candide
The Pirates of Penzance
The Mikado
H.M.S. Pinafore
The Merry Widow
The Student Prince
The Desert Song
The New Moon
Die Fledermaus
The Chocolate Soldier
Orpheus in the Underworld
The Dancing Years
The Countess Mariza
Baroness Lili
Naughty Marietta
The Fortune Teller
Babes in Toyland
Rose Marie
The Vagabond King
The Knickerbockers
Bitter Sweet

Anything that reminds you of Les Miserables in any way?


"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian

Updated On: 4/7/05 at 10:42 AM

#23

re: How Are They Musicals?

Considering that most of the musicals were written in styles of their time, Yes, they all do.
"Do you know what pledge time is, Andrew"? said the PBS Executive. "Yes", Lloyd Webber replied. "My 50th birthday special must be one program that gets done a lot." "No", mused the man from PBS heedlessy. "Not so much. Our Stephen Sondheim Carnegie Hall concert. That's a big one." Spoons, forks and knives seemed suddenly to suspend their motion in horror, all around the table.
#24

re: How Are They Musicals?

None of them remind ME of Les Mis...
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy." -Charlie Manson
#25

re: How Are They Musicals?

I think we're forgetting that the terms "Musical" (from "Musical Comedy") and "Opera" have developed historically and independently, and so there's a lot of overlap. "Musical comedy" stems from American vaudeville of the early years of the 20th century; evenually the form expanded to encompass both comedic and serious subject matter (the musical theatre form also has elements of 19th-century populist melodrama). Opera has a much older tradition, of course, being the descendent of the Court Masque of the Early Modern Period (ballet has similar origins). Both opera and musical theatre have grown significantly and have influenced each other immensely; the "integrated musical," for example, is directly adapted from Wagner and his preference for the "seamlessness of theatrical elements," where music, lyric, story and performance all merge into one flowing whole. Differences between the two forms are historical, not definitive.

I believe when Boublil & Schonberg were writing LES MISERABLES (originally performed as a concert, I think), they were very much writing a song cycle in the musical theatre "mould." But Schonberg also grew up with opera and so is heavily influenced by that musical tradition, hence why LES MISERABLES has many operatic qualities.

BlueWizard's blog: The Rambling Corner HEDWIG: "The road is my home. In reflecting upon the people whom I have come upon in my travels, I cannot help but think of the people who have come upon me."

Updated On: 4/7/05 at 11:00 AM

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