In praise of THE FANTASTICKS OC recording — Page 2

Thanks for this thread, QueenAlice!

I have both the original and the 2006 recordings. I like the 2006 version because it contains additional dialogue, and the harp is more prominent in the accompaniment.

I prefer the characterizations on the original cast recording, however - the original Matt and Luisa especially. On the 2006 recording, Matt and Luisa sound too emotionally mature, right from the beginning of the show. The originals display a perfect dose of adolescent egocentrism at the start, and grow into more mature characters via their trails, tribulations and life lessons.

As for It Depends on What You Pay, I think that if the currently modified lyrics were the ones I had been weaned on all these years, I'd find absolutely no fault.

After all, the song is not about rape. Right from its introduction in the show, it's very clear that there is never going to be a rape. The song is about salesmanship and getting top dollar for an extremely absurd product that no one would/should ever pay for. El Gallo is preying on the fathers' needs.

I prefer the use of the word "rape" in the lyrics for those two reasons, and I like the extreme absurdity. If I had never been exposed to the extreme choice, and had only known the updated lyrics (the ones from the 2006 recording), I don't think I would be missing anything, though. The song is still about preying on "consumers" and salesmanship of an absurd product.

"perhaps I'm wrong"

Unthinkable!

"Greenwich Village in 1960 was (by most historic recollections) beatnik central: strange and dirty and certainly not the place most families would go for an outing."

Gee, I wonder how all the families who went to see Little Mary Sunshine, Leave It to Jane, and yes, The Fantasticks -- all in violation of your after-the-fact decree-- managed to escape all those horrifying beatniks and return home safely from the strange and dirty wilds of Greenwich Village!

"It was however the perfect place for a show like the FANTASTICKS to open,"

Uh, why would the beatnik-ridden, strange and dirty locale of The Village be the perfect place for this musical to open?

"and I suspect most original audiences completely understood the context of the word "rape" as it was used in the play and it wasn't an issue."

Then there would have been no reason for anyone to be shocked, jarred, or taken out of the moment, all of which you applaud the show for.

It never ceases to amaze how people can speak with such authority on shows they never saw, events they never witnessed, places they never visited, and eras they never lived through. First-hand observation is a far better gauge of reality than any second-hand account in a book.

Clearly, humility, as a concept, is dead.

THE FANTASTICKS was the first show staged at the summer stock theater the seasons I worked there as tech director in 1976 and 1977. The director was Betsy Joslyn who had played Luisa in the New York company for years. We felt we were being directed by someone who would really know how the show should be played, and Betsy was a complete sweetheart to boot. Of course in 1976 rape meant what it does today. I suspect the same would have been true in 1960. Regardless, the song went on as written, and there was no horror on the faces of those New Hampshire theater goers as far as I could tell. We all simply understand the context of the song and the intention of its authors. There was no reason to apologize for the darkness in the words, and I'm sorry to hear Tom Jones felt there was anything to rewrite later on.

Updated On: 8/27/16 at 09:18 PM

The Fantasticks is very much a classic - - - what longevity for such a beautiful show. I recently watched the 1964 television adaptation starring John Davidson and Susan Watson. Sublime.

Susan Watson famously chose the role of Kim McAfee on Broadway in BYE BYE BIRDIE over Luisa Off-Broadway in the FANTASTICKS, a role she had originated in whatever the previous production was. (I think she later married Tom Jones and starred in a number of Jones/Schmidt works) Part of me wishes she was on the OC, but Rita Gardner is still excellent.

The TV version also had full orchestrations done up by Phil Lang. Although the harp and piano arrangements are absolutely perfect, I would love to hear a recording in high fidelity with those charts.

John Davidson appeared in the current production of The Fantasticks a few years ago: once as the Old Actor and once as Bellomy. When I interviewed him for BWW he mentioned that the authors felt the Hallmark production was the finest representation of the show. I don't know if I agree.

I don't know if this was ever decided above or not, but as someone who remembers 1960: the word "rape" meant more or less what it means today. (The concept of "date rape" was less well known and most people associated the word with assault by a stranger. In many states, it was legally impossible for a man to rape his wife.)

But audiences figured out, consciously or not, that "rape" in the show means the older definition of "abduction". There's nothing in the libretto to suggest Luisa will be sexually abused.