#26
Posted: 5/1/05 at 10:32pm
Glebb - probably, but I saw a charm and sex appeal that exceeded her weaknesses.
Margo on Charity — Page 2
#28
Posted: 5/1/05 at 11:04pm
Margo- BRAVO! Of all the reviews I have read (or Written) of the entire Broadways season, this is BY FAR the best and most realisitic review on the board! I honestly couldt agree with you more. The show was such a let down on SOOOOO many points, but yet entertaining, but yet NOT height hiting. Its ashame - the should SHOULD HAVE BEEN & COULD HAVE BEEN GREAT - but its just not- and I do beleive the critics will see that this week!
#29
Posted: 5/2/05 at 12:32am
EXCELLENT review Margo!! Looks like basically nothing has changed since Boston! And that's a shame.
#30
Posted: 5/2/05 at 12:48am
Thanks for the review Margo! A detailed look at the production, instead of a "it sucked, don't see it" one.
I see that people are still reviewing Cilento's work on this show as "well, it's not Fosse, so why even go there?", though. That's disappointing. What has this guy done to invoke so much rage from BBW posters? Is it that the people lucky enough to have seen the earlier Fosse incarnation of the show just can't seperate themselves from those wonderful visions of choreography and see the show in any other light?
I see that people are still reviewing Cilento's work on this show as "well, it's not Fosse, so why even go there?", though. That's disappointing. What has this guy done to invoke so much rage from BBW posters? Is it that the people lucky enough to have seen the earlier Fosse incarnation of the show just can't seperate themselves from those wonderful visions of choreography and see the show in any other light?
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#31
Posted: 5/2/05 at 12:53am
La Cage: Anyone that writes a negative review of CHARITY will get your praise because you're in love with the trainwreck happening at the Marquis right now.
Margo: Excellent comments. I do agree with your comments about the direction and choreography, yet I still enjoyed the show. It was my first exposure to the show, so I had absolutely nothing else to compare it to.
Despite how mediocre I thought Bobbie's direction and the abominable Cileno were, Applegate REALLY REALLY won me over. If it wasn't for her, I would have hated the show.
Margo: Excellent comments. I do agree with your comments about the direction and choreography, yet I still enjoyed the show. It was my first exposure to the show, so I had absolutely nothing else to compare it to.
Despite how mediocre I thought Bobbie's direction and the abominable Cileno were, Applegate REALLY REALLY won me over. If it wasn't for her, I would have hated the show.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#32
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:12am
This is not a really a case of "well, it's not Fosse, so why even go there?" but, rather the case of a choreographer who doesn't understand how to use dance to tell a story, flesh out character and add nuance and vibrancy to the overall production. It's just a bunch of steps with no motivation or urgency behind them, let alone wit or personality. If steps and movement are not tied to character, they ultimately only have a fraction of the impact that they could, no matter how well executed they are by a company of professional dancers. You don't HAVE to re-create Fosse's original choreography, but with a show like this one with a rather weak and superficial book you need to have a choreographer who knows how to use movement to add depth and meaning to the proceedings. Cilento doesn't know how to do that.
Look at Reinking's work on another Fosse masterpiece "Chicago." While the choreography was "in the style of" Fosse, the actual steps and movements were her own (with the exception of "Hot Honey Rag" which was Fosse's original) and she managed to capture the essence of the Fosse's wit and dynamism and vibrancy without resorting to pure imitation. Her dances had attitude and perspective and informed character -- precisely what's missing from Cilento's work on "Sweet Charity" which is all random and interchangeable and frankly, in the end, rather boring.
If you're still unclear as to what I'm referring to, do yourself a favor and rent or buy the film version of "Sweet Charity" directed and choreographed by Fosse himself. A picture's worth a thousand words -- watch the sheer genius at work in "Rich Man's Frug" and "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This" and then maybe you'll understand what a complete and total botch job Cilento made of this show.
Look at Reinking's work on another Fosse masterpiece "Chicago." While the choreography was "in the style of" Fosse, the actual steps and movements were her own (with the exception of "Hot Honey Rag" which was Fosse's original) and she managed to capture the essence of the Fosse's wit and dynamism and vibrancy without resorting to pure imitation. Her dances had attitude and perspective and informed character -- precisely what's missing from Cilento's work on "Sweet Charity" which is all random and interchangeable and frankly, in the end, rather boring.
If you're still unclear as to what I'm referring to, do yourself a favor and rent or buy the film version of "Sweet Charity" directed and choreographed by Fosse himself. A picture's worth a thousand words -- watch the sheer genius at work in "Rich Man's Frug" and "There's Gotta Be Something Better Than This" and then maybe you'll understand what a complete and total botch job Cilento made of this show.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 5/2/05 at 01:12 AM
#33
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:19am
If you were talking to me, I wasn't disputing that.
My only exposure to Fosse's choreography of CHARITY is from FOSSE. I do agree with you about Cilento - I think he's wretched.
Any more comments on Applegate? Can you see why I love her so much?
My only exposure to Fosse's choreography of CHARITY is from FOSSE. I do agree with you about Cilento - I think he's wretched.
Any more comments on Applegate? Can you see why I love her so much?
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#34
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:22am
I think Margo's reply is pretty much in response to Justme's question about people reviewing this only by comparing the work to Fosse's.
#35
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:27am
Margo,
I understand the point you are making, that Cilento is a bad choreographer and you don't like his work. That said, your review and subsequent response to my post explains to me very clearly why you think Cilento is off his mark in this show. But then you back up your statements in the last paragraph by telling me to rent Sweet Charity and see Fosse' work and understand why Cilento's is so bad. Isn't that comparing Cilento's choregraphy with Fosse' orignal work on the show? Is that fair? Cilento never said he was going to revive Fosse' choreography for this show.
Now, I have no opinion either way on Cilento. I've seen some of his work in other shows and have not been impressed either. BUT...I think a lot of people are seeing this show with FOSSE on the mind and will automatically not like Cilento's work based on that alone. That doesn't seem like a fair judgement to me.
And though I already saw the Sweet Charity movie years ago, I won't be renting it again until AFTER I see this show, because I know how good Fosse' work is and don't want have that image in my mind when I am supposed to be watching a Sweet Charity revival with Cilento's take on it.
I understand the point you are making, that Cilento is a bad choreographer and you don't like his work. That said, your review and subsequent response to my post explains to me very clearly why you think Cilento is off his mark in this show. But then you back up your statements in the last paragraph by telling me to rent Sweet Charity and see Fosse' work and understand why Cilento's is so bad. Isn't that comparing Cilento's choregraphy with Fosse' orignal work on the show? Is that fair? Cilento never said he was going to revive Fosse' choreography for this show.
Now, I have no opinion either way on Cilento. I've seen some of his work in other shows and have not been impressed either. BUT...I think a lot of people are seeing this show with FOSSE on the mind and will automatically not like Cilento's work based on that alone. That doesn't seem like a fair judgement to me.
And though I already saw the Sweet Charity movie years ago, I won't be renting it again until AFTER I see this show, because I know how good Fosse' work is and don't want have that image in my mind when I am supposed to be watching a Sweet Charity revival with Cilento's take on it.
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#36
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:31am
Those comments were for justme2.
I thought Applegate was quite charismatic and even lovable. But she's just a passable singer and given her fragile physical state, I can't really evaluate her dancing. I certainly like her, but I must say I'm used to seeing Charitys who are true triple threat dynamos who can dance everyone else all but off the stage (I saw Allen who was terrific and have the DVD of Verdon doing "I'm A Brass Band" on the Ed Sullivan Show -- the woman's stamina was frightening, doing dozens of high kicks and dancing circles around the entire dance chorus without ever breathing hard). That's not Applegate and I don't think that'll be her even once she's fully healed. She's getting through all of this on charm and determination, which she has a considerable supply of, not sheer talent. I'm sure she'll have a lot of fans among the voters come Tony time and she deserves them. Personally though, I still think Clark gives the finest musical theatre performance of the season.
I thought Applegate was quite charismatic and even lovable. But she's just a passable singer and given her fragile physical state, I can't really evaluate her dancing. I certainly like her, but I must say I'm used to seeing Charitys who are true triple threat dynamos who can dance everyone else all but off the stage (I saw Allen who was terrific and have the DVD of Verdon doing "I'm A Brass Band" on the Ed Sullivan Show -- the woman's stamina was frightening, doing dozens of high kicks and dancing circles around the entire dance chorus without ever breathing hard). That's not Applegate and I don't think that'll be her even once she's fully healed. She's getting through all of this on charm and determination, which she has a considerable supply of, not sheer talent. I'm sure she'll have a lot of fans among the voters come Tony time and she deserves them. Personally though, I still think Clark gives the finest musical theatre performance of the season.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
Updated On: 5/2/05 at 01:31 AM
#37
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:35am
Margo,
I posted my response to you above....must have been posted while you were posting at the same time!!
I posted my response to you above....must have been posted while you were posting at the same time!!
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#38
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:43am
All I'm saying is that Cilento's work is bad. Period. Yes, it looks even worse when compared to Fosse's original staging and choreography, but, frankly, with or without that comparison, it's bad all by itself. I merely was suggesting that if you want to see examples of what's missing in Cilento's work, you could rent the movie -- it's easier than my trying to explain it. That's all. Another choreographer might have been able to do a brilliant job with this material, which is why I mentioned Reinking's work on Chicago. But that didn't happen. They hired Cilento.
"What a story........ everything but the bloodhounds snappin' at her rear end." -- Birdie
[http://margochanning.broadwayworld.com/]
"The Devil Be Hittin' Me" -- Whitney
#39
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:49am
Thanks Margo.
I'm hoping to see the show soon, and who knows...I may be agreeing with all you Cilento haters soon enough! I am just hoping (in vain, I am sure) that he will be reviewed on his own merits as a choreographer (bad or otherwise) come Wednesday night.
And thank you again for taking the time to respond to my posts with the examples of why you are dissapointed in the show. You really are a great reviewer and I respect your posts always.
I'm hoping to see the show soon, and who knows...I may be agreeing with all you Cilento haters soon enough! I am just hoping (in vain, I am sure) that he will be reviewed on his own merits as a choreographer (bad or otherwise) come Wednesday night.
And thank you again for taking the time to respond to my posts with the examples of why you are dissapointed in the show. You really are a great reviewer and I respect your posts always.
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#40
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:50am
I sadly never had the opportunity to see a stage show choreographed by Fosse. Having seen this version of Charity I agree completly with Margo anyway. Cilento's coreography is worse than bad, it is ridiculous. None of it has any flow or characterization. It leaves a show I actually rather enjoyed feeling very hollow. Seems the problem is not that the vision is not Fosse, but that Cilento fails to present a vision at all. I thought the comment to see the movie was just a way to see the same material, with vision.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#41
Posted: 5/2/05 at 1:56am
smartpenguin,
Yeah, I keep hearing that about Cilento with this show. I think I felt the same about his choreography for Wicked. I didn't enjoy any of the choreography for that show, but I was basing my opinion on his work and his work alone!
Yeah, I keep hearing that about Cilento with this show. I think I felt the same about his choreography for Wicked. I didn't enjoy any of the choreography for that show, but I was basing my opinion on his work and his work alone!
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#42
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:00am
I was never effected either way by Wicked's Choreogrphy. I think one of the things that makes it so key for Charity is that he dancing is essential to the plot.
I think we are all very close to agreeing, just thinking about the various comments in different ways.
I think we are all very close to agreeing, just thinking about the various comments in different ways.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#43
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:05am
Yes!! I also feel we are really close in the "Cilento" opinion.
But, putting Sweet Charity aside for a moment, can you explain to me why there is so much rage and distaste for this choreographer? I even went online to try and pinpoint at what point he began to piss off the various posters on this site. I can't find it! I barely even knew of him before Wicked and his resume looks fine to me...which is why I say again (sorry to be so redundant!) that I feel a lot of the distaste for this guy stems from him messing around with Fosse' work!
But, putting Sweet Charity aside for a moment, can you explain to me why there is so much rage and distaste for this choreographer? I even went online to try and pinpoint at what point he began to piss off the various posters on this site. I can't find it! I barely even knew of him before Wicked and his resume looks fine to me...which is why I say again (sorry to be so redundant!) that I feel a lot of the distaste for this guy stems from him messing around with Fosse' work!
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#44
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:10am
"As always my dear Miss Channing, You are a voice of reason and understanding. I can always count on you for stating the truth!!"
Margo is a critic. There is no "truth" in whether a show is good or not. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
Margo is a critic. There is no "truth" in whether a show is good or not. It's all in the eye of the beholder.
#45
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:10am
I have not seen that, I can only speak for myself.
During "Rich Man's Frug" they did the 'chicken dance' in some variation. It was at that point I joined the 'hate Cilento' camp. before this he was average (at least Wicked was average) but there is something laughable about this. You can see the dancers give it their all, but really they often look silly, but not intentionally silly.
During "Rich Man's Frug" they did the 'chicken dance' in some variation. It was at that point I joined the 'hate Cilento' camp. before this he was average (at least Wicked was average) but there is something laughable about this. You can see the dancers give it their all, but really they often look silly, but not intentionally silly.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#46
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:18am
The chicken dance? Good Lord.....that's not good. All I remember of the Wicked Choreography was when Elphaba arrives at some party, and the ensemble was doing this terrible "slow motion" rythm movement dancing behind her. I remember thinking...they are not even moving to the beat of the song! Of course, that was when they were in previews in SF, so I don't know if the scene plays the same in New York. I hope not.
What choreographer do you think would have been able to pull off Sweet Charity and shake Fosse' strong fingerprint from the show? I can't think of anyone who would be able to do it!
What choreographer do you think would have been able to pull off Sweet Charity and shake Fosse' strong fingerprint from the show? I can't think of anyone who would be able to do it!
"My dreams, watching me said, one to the other...this life has let us down."
#47
Posted: 5/2/05 at 2:22am
Unfortunately I believe that is still the dancing at that moment in Wicked.
I have no idea who may have been able to pull it off, but almost every show I have seen on Broadway has had better dancing (to me)than this Charity.
I have no idea who may have been able to pull it off, but almost every show I have seen on Broadway has had better dancing (to me)than this Charity.
I stand corrected, you are as vapid as they say.
#48
Posted: 5/2/05 at 8:04am
Cliento is the only choreographer who could actually take a number called "Dancing Through Life" and make it nearly devoid of all dancing. And yes, that semi-slow motion movement off the beat is still in the show. And it looks terrible. Why is this guy getting all this work?
#49
Posted: 5/2/05 at 8:13am
justme - I only became aware of Mr. Cilento with AIDA - and I thought the dancing was the weakest part of that show. That had nothing to do with Fosse, it was just a reaction to what I thought was uninpiring, pedestrian - even sometimes downright ugly - work.
#50
Posted: 5/2/05 at 8:54am
Did anyone else have a problem with the costuming? Why did no one change costumes once? I dont think this all takes place in one day's time, but the costumes gave it that feeling. Cost cutting? Reasoning?
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