McCain bad for Broadway??- Page 2

[Steve2]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:09pm

Please stop this. I come to this board to get away from all that!

[Insider2]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:11pm

Well, it is a historic election night. I don't mind a little political debate among theatre people....once every four years....
Updated On: 11/4/08 at 06:11 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:11pm

Well, if your grade is an 'A', but a 90% and they take away 1%, then you have an 89% which is a 'B'.

Depends on the scale. Could be an A- to a B+. And it depends how you are comparing them to incomes.

You're right. But either way it means less jobs. And the rich aren't all bad. Some of them actually do care. I've heard they have hearts too.

In my specific case there were less jobs. But it doesn't necessairly mean less jobs due to Obama's plan. But the McCain/Palin scare tactic does work on some people. And I never said the rich were all bad. I was using specific examples from my old company.

No...you could be making $250,000 a year, have 3 kids in college, one member of your family in the hospital, and live in New York. That's not a business model, that's real life.

True. Taxes, inflation and minimum wage are all aspects of real life everyone has to deal with as citizens of this country. And I'm sure there are countless scenarios that could be hypothesized for each and every one of us.

They live their lives and try to get by. My point wasn't about the non-extremists, it was about the extremists.

So you were making a point about a relatively small sector of the populace? Why? Do you believe only those who vote for Obama are liberal extremists? I'm not getting your point.

Great for you. You were just trying to make yourself look cooler. Maybe some people actually share an equal amount of democratic and conservative views so they don't want to classify themselves as either?

You thought I was serious?

Just because it doesn't work for you doesn't mean it doesn't work for someone else.

Ditto.

You mean me, someone who volunteers, someone who actually cares about the sick, the less fortunate, but happens to believe that Obama isn't our saviour, is intolerable?

Yes. Not everyone voting for Obama believes he is our saviour. Some of us just believe he is the best option.

No, I view the world realistically.

So what is your realistic plan for the economy? How would you cut taxes, increase employment, get out of the defecit and repair the damage created by the war, the oil crisis and the real estate/banking meltdown without negatively affecting anyone in the country? While neither candidate could truly accomplish all of this, I do believe Obama's plan is more realistic and balanced. And it's not the only reason I'm voting for him.

America isn't intolerable to live in. It's only the people who believe they are better than others that think so.

I couldn't agree more. I mean me, someone who volunteers, someone who actually cares about the sick, the less fortunate, but happens to believe that Obama isn't our saviour. And I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else for saying so.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:12pm

You won't get debate. If you do not support Obama, all you will get is name calling & demonizing aimed at you. What a shame.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:19pm

You won't get debate. If you do not support Obama, all you will get is name calling & demonizing aimed at you. What a shame.

Except that isn't true at all. I haven't called anyone names...yet. Out in the real world, I think the McCain supporters are actually winning the name-calling competition with championship coaching from the McCain/Palin camp.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:30pm

Yes. Not everyone voting for Obama believes he is our saviour. Some of us just believe he is the best option.

How ironic, I feel the same way about McCain. I believe he is the lesser of two evils. That's all. I don't think he's our saviour, but I don't think he's horrible. I don't think Bush is horrible. But I can't say that because obviously Bush was a horrible and insensitive person who only cares about Texas.

So what is your realistic plan for the economy? How would you cut taxes, increase employment, get out of the defecit and repair the damage created by the war, the oil crisis and the real estate/banking meltdown without negatively affecting anyone in the country? While neither candidate could truly accomplish all of this, I do believe Obama's plan is more realistic and balanced. And it's not the only reason I'm voting for him.

Well as I said before, I wouldn't JUST tax the rich. I'd tax the middle class as well. We're taxing the rich just because we can. Well, I feel we CAN tax the middle class as well, so I'm going to. I don't care about Grandma Suzy who now has to lose her house, just so I can keep my money. I mean, that's what all Republicans do right? I guess since I'm leaning to the conservative side, I'm going to be insensitive.

I wouldn't place higher taxes on gas, I wouldn't offer free healthcare, and I wouldn't "redistribute the wealth". I would however offer opportunities to get healthcare without it being it free. It should be free, but it doesn't work that way. I would try to find ways to create more jobs which would mean taxing the rich at a fair rate. Class separation is not the answer. If the rich are taxed 10% of their income, so should the middle and poor classes. Sacrifices will be made, but it is in no way right to tax those who have more.

I couldn't agree more. I mean me, someone who volunteers, someone who actually cares about the sick, the less fortunate, but happens to believe that Obama isn't our saviour. And I certainly don't think I'm better than anyone else for saying so.

Cute. But twisting my words around won't help. I KNOW I'm not better than anyone else. My point in saying:

I couldn't agree more. I mean me, someone who volunteers, someone who actually cares about the sick, the less fortunate, but happens to believe that Obama isn't our saviour.

Was to show that I'm not intolerable even though I don't think taxing the rich is a great idea. Someone who is intolerable is insensitive and heartless. I'm neither. But, I'm certainly no better than someone who is. That's their choice on how to live their life. I've made mine.

Mister Matt, I'm sure you do think you're better than me. If the only thing you can do to prove me wrong is to mock me, than surely your ego has stayed the same.

I don't think you are intolerable, nor is the person who called me it.

I'm not better than you, and you are not better than me. But just so I know, what are your plans to help the economy? What do you plan to do about the war?

I will support either candidate, no matter who wins. But I won't support those who are think they are better than everyone else.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 06:30 PM

[philly03]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 6:45pm

As usual, I'm agreeing with SporkGoddess. Also with: Sondheimgeek too.

"Obama's tax would be ON the small business' revenue. But like I said, I don't trust his supposed tax plan. There's no way the rich alone can pay for the costs of the programs Obama plans to instate.

Republican talking points like what? Waiting lists? Poor facilities? Because I assure you that those are real.

The rich can afford it, but why should they have to? It's their money. And instead of continually raising taxes for the rich, politicians should be working on ways to close loopholes that the rich use to get out of paying those taxes. But they won't because that's how they get out of it, too. "

Agreed. Also about the redistribution thing: where will the motivation be for anyone to excel? Why work 10 hours a day when someone else is working 5 and gets lower taxes. Almost no bump for the extra work. Naturally, I'm a McCain supporter, but I won't totally diss Obama. Just think he's inexperienced and can't wait to see how most of Congress will deal with him. And Spork that's a great point you made about the loopholes + rich!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:39pm

Cute. But twisting my words around won't help. I KNOW I'm not better than anyone else.

I didn't twist your words around. I just thought it was funny how you felt the need to list your humanitarian efforts. That had everything to do with ego. I understood your point, but I think you could have made it with a little less humility if you're going to start passing judgment on others.

Mister Matt, I'm sure you do think you're better than me. If the only thing you can do to prove me wrong is to mock me, than surely your ego has stayed the same.

I don't believe I'm better than you. It wasn't even implied. I was illustrating how your words could be taken as possibly a bit hypocritical. Not a lot, just enough to be humorous.

I mean, that's what all Republicans do right? I guess since I'm leaning to the conservative side, I'm going to be insensitive.

Who are you addressing? Where are these assumptions coming from?

I wouldn't place higher taxes on gas, I wouldn't offer free healthcare, and I wouldn't "redistribute the wealth". I would however offer opportunities to get healthcare without it being it free. It should be free, but it doesn't work that way.

Who is offering free health care?

Also about the redistribution thing: where will the motivation be for anyone to excel? Why work 10 hours a day when someone else is working 5 and gets lower taxes. Almost no bump for the extra work.

Almost no bump? Double the pay that may be taxed a maximum of an additional 4%? Do the math on hourly pay required for both employees, subtract the maximum tax for each employee applicable to their bracket (keeping in mind the 10-hour worker is eligible for the tax hike) and I believe it is still quite a significant "bump". I make well below the income required to have my taxes raised, but I still aspire to qualify for that tax bracket.

But that is only a single issue in the entire Obama tax plan.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 7:47pm

I didn't twist your words around. I just thought it was funny how you felt the need to list your humanitarian efforts.

Funny. Of course you didn't rewrite my phrase and change the ending to mock me. I must've been completely dilusional. And I'm sure you found it funny that I "felt the need" to list my humanitarian efforts. I'm not a humanitarian. I volunteer once in a while. I didn't just feel the need to list my "humanitarian efforts".

But once again you've missed my point. I am no saint, but the last time I checked, a person who disagrees with someone on certain views but does occasional volunteer work is not intolerable.

I don't believe I'm better than you. It wasn't even implied. I was illustrating how your words could be taken as possibly a bit hypocritical. Not a lot, just enough to be humorous.

Fair, you win. I must've forgotten how insensitive I am. Thanks for reminding me.

Who are you addressing? Where are these assumptions coming from?

They're common stereotypes, and I was addressing whoever said I was intolerable.

Again, I'm no saint, but I'm certainly not intolerable because I don't support Obama.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 07:47 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:02pm

I am no saint, but the last time I checked, a person who disagrees with someone on certain views but does volunteer work is not intolerable.

Sometimes people can seem intolerable not because of their views, but how they express them. I can certainly see how I would be viewed as intolerable at times. My boyfriend can certainly attest to that.

They're common stereotypes, and I was addressing whoever said I was intolerable.

See? That's the sort of attitude that's intolerable.

Jeez, like we don't have enough buzz words flying about this political season.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:09pm

Sometimes people can seem intolerable not because of their views, but how they express them. I can certainly see how I would be viewed as intolerable at times. My boyfriend can certainly attest to that.

So I expressed them in an intolerable way? I'm open to my views being changed. I'm open minded. Do you seriously think I want Obama to crash and burn? No. I think he has good intentions. I however think his policies are too extreme to work without intensive exploration.

I'm sure you don't think so, but I'm open minded. I would love for someone to explain to me why his policies will work. I don't think "Or maybe not" is an appropriate answer. Maybe I won't have breakfast tommorow. Maybe I won't travel in a car tommorow. Who cares?

I am in no way intolerable. My social views are liberal, my economic views are conservative. There's plenty of room to listen to other views.

See? That's the sort of attitude that's intolerable.

I was basing it off of a common stereotype. How is that intolerable? I don't agree with the stereotype, but obviously I must be insensitive if I am intolerable.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:24pm

sondheimgeek--if the Republican economic policies are so smart, how did 8 years of them land us in the worst fiscal crisis since the Great Depression?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:25pm

sondheimgeek--if the Republican foreign policies are so smart, how did 8 years of them land us in two unwinnable wars, detested by most of the world and without a single enthusiastic ally?

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:25 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:26pm

sondheimgeek--the Republican policies have been so stupid for 8 years, how about we give SMART a chance?

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:31pm

sondheimgeek--if the Republican economic policies are so smart, how did 8 years of them land us in the worst fiscal crisis since the Great Depression?

I never said they were "so smart". However, the president nor just the republicans control the economy. It's congress.

I'm sure you're dying for me to say it, so yes, the war has been a big factor in our economic decline. But it's not the only cause.

I'm not here to criticize the war. Do I agree with it? No. I think our original intentions were good, and then many mistakes were made along the way.

But criticizing the war is not going to help us. Getting the troops out of there without jeapordizing any of the good we've done there is the problem. The troops need to get out of there, but not until the job is done. It's like building a set, and not finishing it because it's 3 in the morning and you want to go home. Get the job done, then get out.

As for the republican economics: no, they haven't been great. But it's not just the republicans at fault, it's everyone. The sooner people can stop bitching about how Bush single-handedly screwed up our lives, the sooner we can start to get ourselves out of this crisis.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:31 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:33pm

So I expressed them in an intolerable way?

Yes.

Do you seriously think I want Obama to crash and burn?

No. Where did you get that idea? That would be one of those intolerable moments. You said you would support whoever is elected into office.

I was basing it off of a common stereotype. How is that intolerable? I don't agree with the stereotype, but obviously I must be insensitive if I am intolerable.

No, it was the fact that you were using the stereotypes to put words in other peoples' mouths that is intolerable. That's why I asked you who was making those assumptions about you. You don't have to be insensitive to be intolerable.

I'm sure you don't think so, but I'm open minded. I would love for someone to explain to me why his policies will work. I don't think "Or maybe not" is an appropriate answer. Maybe I won't have breakfast tommorow. Maybe I won't travel in a car tommorow. Who cares?

Well, there are plenty of sources available that do not say "or maybe not". BWW is probably not the best place to start.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:35pm

The current financial crisis was caused by the housing market collapse, which was just as much Democrats as it was Republicans.

You can blame a lot of things on Republicans alone, but not the economic situation. Democrats pretty consistently slammed attempts to reform Fannie Mae. Some Republicans had a role, too. Neither party is innocent.

For the record, though, Bush tried to reform Fannie Mae. His efforts were blocked.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:35 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:36pm

The sooner people can stop bitching about how Bush single-handedly screwed up our lives, the sooner we can start to get ourselves out of this crisis.

I don't believe Bush did it single-handedly, either. He definitely used both hands. We were double-fisted.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:36 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:41pm

The current financial crisis was caused by the housing market collapse, which was just as much Democrats as it was Republicans.

WRONG, Spork, WRONG. The current financial crisis was caused by reckless and irresponsible de-regulation, which has been as much a tenet of Republicanism since Reagan as have tax cuts that benefit ONLY the wealthy.

Spork--your day is OVER. Your guys BLEW it.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:42pm

sondheimgeek--the Republican policies have been so stupid for 8 years, how about we give SMART a chance?

Sure, lets give smart a chance. I forgot republicans were stupid. Thanks for reminding me.

No. Where did you get that idea? That would be one of those intolerable moments. You said you would support whoever is elected into office.

First of all, the question was rhetorical. Obviously I don't. I said I would support either candidate. That wasn't being intolerable, but it seems to be the only response that people seem to like.

No, it was the fact that you were using the stereotypes to put words in other peoples' mouths that is intolerable. That's why I asked you who was making those assumptions about you. You don't have to be insensitive to be intolerable.

I didn't put words in your mouth. Just like you didn't twist my words around.

Well, there are plenty of sources available that do not say "or maybe not". BWW is probably not the best place to start.

But the problem is, everywhere I look I haven't found good reasons. I like Obama as a person, but I support McCain.

You can blame a lot of things on Republicans alone, but not the economic situation. Democrats pretty consistently slammed attempts to reform Fannie Mae. Some Republicans had a role, too. Neither party is innocent.

Thank you. That is all I meant. Both sides are guilty.

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:45pm

WRONG, Spork, WRONG. The current financial crisis was caused by reckless and irresponsible de-regulation, which has been as much a tenet of Republicanism since Reagan as have tax cuts that benefit ONLY the wealthy.

Then why did Barney Frank say that Fannie Mae was doing great and that we should keep investing in it just a few weeks before the crash, when it wasn't?

Spork--your day is OVER. Your guys BLEW it.

Blew it how? You mean just as much as the democrats did? If the democrats ever get control of the congress and house we're screwed. There needs to be a balance.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:45 PM

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:45pm

sondheimgeek and SporkGoddess, how old are you? how much experience have you had with bad health insurance? do you have health insurance? I don't. I'm 22 years old, a recent college graduate and looking for a permanent job during a recession (I luckily have a temporary job to pay off my student loans). so...no health insurance for me. my father has fought with his provider for years because they don't want to cover his psoriasis medication, and now my 24 year old sister has to argue with her provider because they didn't want to cover her psoriatic arthritis medication, and her new pharmacy because they don't ship it quickly enough. (and this is a debilitating chronic illness)

universal heath care is not perfect. Medicare and Medicaid aren't the best run programs, mostly because they need actual health care professionals running them. but the state of health insurance in this country now is appalling. it's nothing but red tape. women on average pay more than men, thousands of people don't qualify for it, and its main goal is to turn a profit, not provide coverage for clients.

look at statistics. we're lagging behind every other industrialized country. the system needs an overhaul, which no one seems willing to do. I voted for Barack Obama because he at least appears to want to make a real effort.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:45 PM

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:48pm

Edit: Yeah, guys, I'm gonna step out. It just isn't worth it. I can tell people are going to get nasty and I don't have time to sit and argue all night. You believe what you want and I'll believe what I want.

But, for the record, I'm 21, a poor student, and will have no health insurance as soon as I graduate this winter.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:48 PM

[sondheimgeek]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:50pm

sondheimgeek--the Republican policies have been so stupid for 8 years, how about we give SMART a chance?

It also seems that Spork nor anyone else supporting McCain so far have said that Democrats are stupid. We don't really need to resort to that.

how much experience have you had with bad health insurance? do you have health insurance?

You mean like one of my closest family members being declined from almost every major company because of her pre-existing coniditions? That's not bad health insurance? I'm lucky enough to have it, but it comes at a cost. I lose so much just so I can have health insurance. It shouldn't be that way, but I don't think universal healthcare is the answer. I think we need to explore other options. Trust me, I understand how hard it is. I just don't think Obama's healthcare plan is the right solution.

Updated On: 11/4/08 at 08:50 PM

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 11/4/08 at 8:59pm

and McCain and Palin's plan to allow competition between providers to increase is better because...?