Most inconsistant musical songwriters?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:12am

I was recently listening to the Violet cast album and thinking how much I loved Jeanne Tesori's work on it, and Caroline or Change. So I looked her up on wiki--and found out she had done songs for the pretty awful direct to DVD Disney films Mulan II, Little Mermaid III And Emperor's New Groove II. Now I haven't actually seen more than clips of these, and maybe her songs for them are brilliant--but it saddened me a bit to see her doing third rate Disney DVD sequels... I like her songs for Millie well enough, but nothing in Shrek makes me wanna hear more either.

Which got me thinking--how there are some composers (Sondheim is my obvious, probably too obvious, example) who do score after score that at the least has interest. Even Andrew Lloyd Webber, love or hate him, is pretty consistant when you really look at his work. But there are a lot of composers out there who have had a handful of absolute classic shows--and then a lot that no one except big fans would go out of their way for.

Some of my choices might be controversial--I think Jule Styne and Cy Coleman are both *fantastic* top tier composers. Yet I think each have a good handful of scores I wouldn't even bother having on CD, except to add to my collection. Kander and Ebb are responsible for four of my fave shows ever (Zorba, Chicago, Cabaret and Kiss of the Spider Woman). They also have a few other flop shows like the Rink that have worthy scores. And then IMHO they have a handful of shows I find only of slight interest.

There are other composers where maybe I need to give more of their work more of a chance but for instance Nine is the only score of Yeston that has really gone out and grabbed me, ditto Dreamgirls for Henry Krieger, and even really Chorus Line for Marvin Hamlisch (though I haven't heard Sweet Smell of Success yet).

Do others have examples of this--composers you absolutely ,love at least one of their scores, but you know better than to blindly buy new cast albums from them?

[phantom8019]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:31am

I would say Claude Michel-Schonberg is very consistent. No matter how bad some of the lyrics are for his shows, the music keeps me interested. I think Martin Guerre is his best and most underrated score. He also did a ballet of Wuthering Heights, and I thought the music was pretty good.
Yes, I cannot believe that the same person who wrote the music for Caroline or Change wrote Shrek. I just don't think her heart was in Shrek. I think some composers really have to connect with the material to be inspired.

[James885]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:51am

The first one that immediately came to my mind was Stephen Schwartz. I love his scores to Children of Eden and Pippin but his score for Wicked (and to a lesser extent, Godspell) left me mostly cold.

Updated On: 11/13/09 at 09:51 AM

[BroadwayBound115]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 9:59am

Inconsistent I would have to say is Ahrens and Flaherty, and a good inconsistent. They have mentioned in interviews that they try to make each very different from the last. I think they've accomplished that goal pretty well, Seussical and Ragtime and A Man of No Importance and Lucky Stiff, all different musicals with different scores by the same composer and lyricist! I love it!

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 10:14am

I was thinking Ahrens and Flaherty here, but then realized even though their scores can be quite different, I always find something to love in them (well except My Favourite Year which I haven't really connected with yet)

Schwartz I could see too--I love Pippin, I like Wicked, I LOVE most of Baker's Wife, some of his movie music, but have little time for Godspell, Magic Show, Children of Eden...

Phantom 8019 that's prob fair enough - and reminds me I wanna hear his Wuthering Heights ballet--is it recorded?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 10:22am

I think you have to have some measure of what inconsistency means. Otherwise it just becomes a matter of opinion.

For example, you cite Sondheim. I think that Into the Woods and Sweeney Todd are top notch. Passion is a big, stinking pile of crapola. Company is middle of the road with some good, some bad.

You also cite ALW. I think Evita is top notch, Beautiful Game and Whistle Down the Wind are hugely lacking. The others fall in the middle.

EricM mentions Godspell which I think is better than Pippin.

So there really needs to be some criteria for why some shows are good and some not so good.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 12:20pm

And here Passion is my favorite Sondheim score.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 12:46pm

The first name that comes to mind is Charles Strouse. I never know what to expect from one song to the next. Flops or hits, his scores in general are a grab-bag of diamonds and lumps of coal. Annie and Bye Bye Birdie are the only two that seem consistently strong.

[phantom8019]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 1:04pm

Hey Eric,

The Wuthering Heights ballet was recorded, but I am not sure of its present availability. It might be on E-bay. It is by no means a "must have" item, but it is pleasant enough if you are a fan of Schonberg's music.

[Gobstopper]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 1:45pm

WHOA, Gothampc, you think Company is "middle of the road?" I mean, you're certainly entitled to that, but... I repeat, whoa.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 11/13/09 at 2:37pm

"WHOA, Gothampc, you think Company is "middle of the road?"

One of my criteria is that a musical should be seamless. In other words, if you can pull songs out or rearrange songs in the show, then it's probably not as solid of a show as it could be.

With Company, many people pull out "Tick Tock." Yes the show can move forward, but so much is taken away. Also, lately productions have been shoe-horning in "Marry Me A Little" which doesn't really work.

IMO, Act 1 works, but Act 2 falls apart. The only decent songs in Act 2 are "Ladies Who Lunch" and "Being Alive". The rest of the act is musically mediocre with "Barcelona" being cringeworthy. I wish Sondheim had written a better song for that moment.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 2:21am

|And here Passion is my favorite Sondheim score.|

Haha Mine too--in fact Company and Passion are prob my two faves.

GothamPC we're gonna have to agree to disagree I think barcelona is genius, and I don't think Company could have songs cut out and rearranged. I do prefer the show with Tick Tock in but... But I mean even Sweeney has songs gthat can be cut out (and have been) or re-arranged. I don't get the criteria

You're right though that my definition, or lack thereof, of incosistant, sucks. I guess I just wanted to know who were composers people on here felt were pretty much consistantly "safe bets" or strong, and who were the ones where they love one or two or even 4 shows and have zero interest iun the others.

Agreed about Charles Strouse

[perfectlymarvelous]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 2:32am

I also have to disagree with your assessment of ALW being consistent. I love the scores for Evita and Sunset Boulevard and individual songs from the rest of his work that I am familiar with but I do think he's a rather inconsistent composer, even from show to show. Definitely his strongest score overall is Evita, though.

As for Charles Strouse, I really love his score for Rags. Stephen Schwartz's lyrics are borderline but the music itself is really lovely.

Most consistent in my mind are probably Sondheim and Andrew Lippa.

In terms of inconsistent I'm surprised no one has mentioned Michael John LaChiusa yet. He's done some brilliant work but also some stuff that is just plain bizarre.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 4:01am

I really shoulda thought my original post out more I guess.

Re ALW I'm not a fan of all his scores yet somehow to me he seems more consistant than, say, Styne or even Kander and Ebb (I know i'll get in trouble for saying that)--hrmm hard to explain

Marvelous--I totally agree about Rags.

Disagreed about Lippa--I think an awful lot of his material is ill fitting pop blandness, but I adore some of his stuff.

And just to be contrary, I love every single score by LaChiusa I've heard. Yeah, some of them take a lot more listens to get into and some are instant but with him, for me anyway, I always know it's worth the investment.

[binau]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 4:26am

"Re ALW I'm not a fan of all his scores yet somehow to me he seems more consistant than, say, Styne or even Kander and Ebb (I know i'll get in trouble for saying that)--hrmm hard to explain "

I don't think it's that hard :P, I mean, If I understand what you mean, you're saying that you can expect the same calibre of score each 'time' from ALW (even if not top tier), but Styne you can expect top tier sometimes but not so great scores others.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 4:58am

Eureeka--yes that's pretty much it! With Styne I think part of the thing is he's a songwriter who sorta straddled different eras. I mean I don't hold Gershwin or even Berlin to the same standards--I know that they have many amazing songs, a couple of thoroughly brilliant scores and then a lot of hit or miss ones--and that waspartly due to the style of show many of their works were done in. With Coleman or Kander and Ebb this is less of an excuse. I mean just listening to Will Rogers Follies side by side with Sweet Charity, or Woman of the Year side by side with even a lesser known score like Zorba, it just feels like the same amount of effort couldn't have possibly be placed in both.

[Schmerg_The_Impaler]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 11:10am

Most people will probably say that Frank Wildhorn is consistently terrible. But for some reason, The Scarlet Pimpernel is one of my favorite scores of all time, and I've never been even remotely impressed with any of his other work.

I think that Alan Menken is quite consistent. The lyricists he works with aren't always brilliant, but his tunes always have that certain magic to them.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 11:51am

I am NOT a Wildhorn fan although sometimes I can succumb to one or two of his power ballads--but that's usually out of their context. But I have to agree his only score to remotely grab me is Pimpernel.

Agreed about Menken. Even looking into some of his very minor unrecorded work (pre Disney) like Duddky Kravitz and Dream on Royal Street (not to mention his first Ashman show, God Bless You Mr Rosewater which needs a recording *now*) I always find little surprises and things that completely win me over. I remember reading in some musical book the opinion that if he had been born earlier he woulda had a HUGE Broadway career (during the 50s/60s or whenever) and I can't help agreeing. I'm a big fan, even though I often kinda forget about him lol (and agreed he's had lyricists that go from the sublime--Ashman--to the ****s--Jack Feldman among others)

[Drunk Chita Rivera]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 12:54pm

I think people misunderstand Jeanne Tesori's role in Shrek. She only di the music and David Lindsay Abaire did the lyrics. The lyrics are crap for the most part but the music part is actually pretty good. I personally liked Shrek.

[garyl]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 2:18pm

Charles Strouse: except for Rags, Golden Boy and Also, there are some gems in Superman and Dance a Little Closer

[defygravity24]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 2:20pm

SONDHEIM!!!

[Gypsy9]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 8:45pm

No one is a bigger fan of Jule Styne than I. But I agree that in terms of Broadway excellence, some of his scores are less than terrific. In that sense he could be said to have been inconsistent. But most of his lackluster scores are his later shows: HALLELUIA BABY, SUGAR, and the sad, final RED SHOES. It was as if Styne just ran out of steam. IMO, HAZEL FLAGG was his only poor score during the very productive 1940's and 1950's and into the 1960's with FUNNY GIRL and (yes)SUBWAYS ARE FOR SLEEPING. Nevertheless, even HAZEL FLAGG, which suffered from poor orchestrations, left two fine showtunes: "Every Street's a Boulevard" and "How Do You Speak To An Angel?".

[scaryclowns2232]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 10:45pm

I agree about CHarles Strouse: terribly inconsistent.

His score to MAYOR, with the exception of a couple songs ("You Can Be A New Yorker" and the title song) is absolutely terrible. Just pretentious, angry, bitter (a little bit racist) and not at all fun to listen to.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 11/14/09 at 11:45pm

Gypsy your defense of Styne is interesting--I'd love to hear Red Shoes. (I did see the Edmonton premier--and only performance?-of his Treasure Island/Pieces of Eight, but I was 5 or 6...) I guess some shows inspired him more than others... Certainly it's fair to say many of his shows didn't require the kinda score Gypsy, for example, did.

Defygravity--Really?

Drunk Chita--I'm well aware Tesori didn't do the lyrics. I do think she did the lyrics for Little Mermaid 3 and Mulan 2 though (and it's not her lyrics I'm objecting to, I just sometimes am shocked, and not in a good way, the woman who did the amazing Caroline or Change and Violet did these pieces)