Musical/play being in the same universe as another musical/play?- Page 2

[NoName3]

Posted: 1/11/18 at 4:04am

Yes, Fan123, the opera is *Madama* Butterfly by Puccini but the play it was based on was David Belasco's *Madame* Butterfly, a play based on a short story by John Luther Long of the same title. Our current Belasco Theater was built by David Belasco, thus its name, and his friendly ghost allegedly inhabits the theater.

South Pacific was based on a series of short stories by James Michener called Tales of the South Pacific and was originally based on a story that concerned a Lt. Cable and his local concubine Liat. Rodgers insisted that the writing stop because it was just a retelling of Madame Butterfly. Writing began again based on another short story from Michener's book about plantation owner Emile de Becque and nurse Nellie Forbush. But Hammerstein eventually realized he could combine the two stories, despite the fact that in Michener's original collection of stories, the two couples never met.

It's generally recognized that despite much updating Miss Saigon uses the same now public domain source material, although it's not officially acknowledged.

Updated On: 1/11/18 at 04:04 AM

[Fan123]

Posted: 1/11/18 at 5:43am

Interesting stuff, although I actually meant David Henry Hwang's play 'M. Butterfly' which uses the opera as its primary point of reference.

Speaking of 'Tales of the South Pacific', there's also a minor Easter-Egg-in-retrospect in the book, in that characters reference a Hammerstein (albeit not Rodgers and Hammerstein) song a few times, 'The Last Time I Saw Paris'. One character even throws some half-hearted shade on the song. Where's the "Musical/play source material being in the same universe as its eventual theatrical adaptors" thread...

[John Adams]

Posted: 1/11/18 at 9:13am

NoName3 said: "The idea of "universes" in contemporary conception goes back to the US TV show St. Elsewhere as far as I know (open to correction, but make sure you're talking about contemporary conception)."

I'm not sure what you might mean by "contemporary conception", but I believe the term universe is more akin to its meaning/use in Mathematics (a collection that contains all the entities one wishes to consider in a given situation). In movies, TV, or theater, a universe would consist of characters, settings, etc. created by a single author/writer/publisher. The limits regarding where a collection begins/ends are defined by who its creator is.

For example, in the Stephen King universe, one very recognizable element he repeatedly utilizes from his "collection" is the setting (Castle Rock, Maine). Another example is Shonda Rhimes. She has quite a collection of fictional characters in her universe. It is her universe because she is their creator.

In both examples, each of the creators' novels or TV series stand on their own, as individual, unrelated works. They can, however, contain "overlaps" where elements from the creators' universes blend. For example, in King's novels, I believe (not 100 percent sure?) there is a character of a sheriff who is utilized in more than one novel, and in Rhimes' case (as well as with other TV shows not created by Rhimes), there are "crossover" episodes, where characters from one show appear as guest stars in another.


NoName3 also said: "In the final episode of St. Elsewhere, Tommy Westphall, the autistic son of one of the main characters is seen staring into a snow globe that depicts the eponymous hospital. From that final scene, multiple critics and commenters realized that *numerous* shows were related to the St. Elsewhere universe."

Well.. not exactly, but you're correct. It isn't the St. Elsewhere universe, however, but rather the Tommy Westphall universe. Tommy was the creator. Wikipedia explains it more plainly:

"As characters from St. Elsewhere have appeared on other television shows and those shows' characters appeared on more shows, and so on, a "Tommy Westphall Universe" hypothesis was postulated by Dwayne McDuffie where a significant amount of fictional episodic television exists within Tommy Westphall's imagined fictional universe."

The reason I believe that Loopin'theloop has given the best example of what Jorge asked about in his original post is that Me and My Girl (a stand-alone work, from the universe of a completely different creator, with no direct relation to My Fair Lady) very subtly and cleverly brought in a character from the Lerner/Loewe universe (Henry Higgins).

Updated On: 1/11/18 at 09:13 AM