NEXT TO NORMAL Press Preview Review (No Spoilers)- Page 2

[Wanna Be A Foster]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 8:28am

I was four seats to the right of you, in A109.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 8:29am

Sweet! :)

[broadwaybaby086]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 1:17pm

Jordangirl, that's actually my favorite part of the show as it stands right now. "You Don't Know" has always been my favorite, as it holds a place close to my heart, but when she starts with "You say you hurt like me..." and stands up and pushes Brian- chills. Even though I'm not completely sold on Alice (her vowels just don't sit right with my ears), that is a moment when I really love her. It makes me happy just thinking about it.

I'm surprised I haven't met you yet; we seem to go to a lot of the same things. :o)

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 01:17 PM

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 2:36pm

It's one of my favorite parts too, and I usually get chills when she stands up, but something about last night... I actually shivered in a good way.

There are several people on here I seem to keep going to the same things as and never meet. Maybe one day. :)

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 3:05pm

"Feeling Electric" was nearly enough to turn me off of the show completely. I really, really detest the song and its mad-scientist depiction of mental health treatment, which the psychological community has been trying to combat for years. ECT IS still used in extreme cases, but the song is just....so completely ridiculous.

I suspect that I'd have multiple issues with the show on the mental health front, but I'll reserve my overall judgment for when I see it.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 3:10pm

In context... It's really how Diana sees it. The whole "scary rockstar" thing. I never saw it as them saying "this is how it is" but "this is how this one person is seeing it". I think the slight changes to the dialogue with Natalie make that a lot more obvious. Out of context ~ or from the sound boot ~ it's NOT so clear that it's her vision of it. But on stage as it is now, it's pretty clear.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 03:10 PM

[LeaGirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 3:31pm

I didn't feel like the show was anti-treatment at all - while Diana was really struggling I felt like the issue was some of the emotional blackmail she was going through with Dan - and

*Spoilers*

At the end - even though Diana's treatment has come across less than perfect, Dan chooses to seek help from the SAME doctor - and it seems as if things are heading in a positive direction.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 4:11pm

I haven't seen Next to Normal yet, but I had these same complaints with the show back during its Feeling Electric days. It portrayed electroconvulsive therapy as this evil Frankenstein-esque procedure, just as Hollywood tends to. In reality, it is the most successful treatment for severe depression. Amnesia is usually limited to the few weeks preceding the procedure and the memories are recovered soon after. As othered mentioned, there are a few cases where the amnesia is up to a few years- but not 17+ -and most of these memories are recovered in less than a year. There have been no cases where someone forgets EVERYTHING as portrayed in the show and ECT has been very closely monitored and studied.

There are enough negative portrayals of ECT already out there and as a result, too many people who would need the treatment wouldn't even consider it. I don't think it's wrong for people to be disappointed the show couldn't give an accurate, informed portrayal about a serious issue instead of sensationalizing it for dramatic effect. If they were portraying chemotherapy as this mad scientist procedure where cancer patients hallucinate, go totally bald after one procedure and have complete and total amnesia, everyone who knew anyone with cancer would be up in arms about the inaccurate, negative portrayal. Why should ECT get any less respect for reality?

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 4:23pm

While I understand (and completely agree) orangeskittles, in the context of the show, I just had assumed that the "Feeling Electric" number is the fantasy of the Diana character. There had already been a reference to Diana seeing the doctor as a scary rock star (Eli Stone, anyone?), which is why I thought it fit.

Of course the idea that she would lose her entire memory is absurd, but even so, the idea of how absurd it is is addressed in the text. Whether or not people buy it is anyone's guess.

That said, what Next to Normal would benefit from, if they do intend on moving to Broadway, is the assistance of a dramaturg. Someone like Lincoln Center's Anne Cattaneo, who can help Kitt and Yorkey massage some of the finer details.

And a director who wouldn't turn the piece into a manic, traditional rock musical in the same style of his best known work would help, as well. Updated On: 2/10/08 at 04:23 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 4:34pm

See the thing is, I don't feel like the show really DOES make ECT out to be this horrible, horrible procedure that only causes more damage. Only some of the characters in the show view it that way, and that's because they're going off the exact same negative impression of the procedure that has been described in this thread. But if you look at how the show itself portrays it, it actually does help Diana. So the amnesia aspect may be a "worst-case-scenario" type deal, but worst case scenarious DO happen occasionally, or else they wouldn't exist to be called worst case scenarious haha. But in the end, the amnesia DOES get better, and Diana is able to view things clearly enough that she takes the steps she needs to help herself. So.. how is that really portraying ECT as a bad thing? Just because in the end she walks away from it, that's something that's personal to this individual story, and all it's really saying is that, in this particular case, she had only needed the ECT in order to get to that place where she could really figure out the root of what was hurting her. After that, it happened to be that ECT was no longer what she needed- what she needed was to leave and work things out on her own. That was that case- it's not to say that other people wouldn't benifit from more rounds, or anything like that. But meanwhile, the show never suggests that the ECT doesn't work. On the contrary, the way I see it, it suggests that it DID help her greatly so that she was then able to work things out on her own and no longer needed it. That's a good thing, not a bad thing :)


Oh and as for "Feeling Electric", it's simply Diana's hallucination WHILE she's having the treatment. Granted I can buy that people having ECT probably don't hallucinate while they're having it haha, but I mean.. I don't feel like that really sheds that much negative light on the procedure. It's just to make for a more interesting, dramatic show, and I'm pretty confident most people would understand it that way. Or I guess that I shouldn't speak for anyone else, but I know I never took it to be like "oooh ECT makes you have scary hallucinations!!". It was like like, "WOW what an awesome song" and it didn't make me feel one way or another about ECT haha. But yeah, just as far as the people who have said that what is SAID in the song is bad: that's because it's not really happening, she's just imagining it, so pretty much what's being said doesn't HAVE to be factual.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 04:34 PM

[LeaGirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 4:40pm

""Amnesia is usually limited to the few weeks preceding the procedure and the memories are recovered soon after. As othered mentioned, there are a few cases where the amnesia is up to a few years- but not 17+ -and most of these memories are recovered in less than a year.""

Wait I don't see how that's different from the show - her memories start returning in earnest after four weeks in the show...

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 04:40 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:02pm

But if you look at how the show itself portrays it, it actually does help Diana. So the amnesia aspect may be a "worst-case-scenario" type deal, but worst case scenarious DO happen occasionally, or else they wouldn't exist to be called worst case scenarious haha

The worst case scenario for ECT is a few years of memory loss, not total memory loss, so what is portrayed does NOT happen occasionally. The show goes far above and beyond the real worst case scenario into a ridiculous and sensationalized scenarios.


Wait I don't see how that's different from the show - her memories start returning in earnest after four weeks in the show...

It's different because she forgets EVERYTHING. She doesn't recognize her husband, her family, her house. In only the rare occasion, the worst is only a few years of memory loss at most, not your entire life.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:06pm

Actually my cousin who is potentially facing ECT has been warned that on very rare occasions, there is total memory loss. Does it happen often? No. It's extremely rare, but it CAN happen.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:12pm

Can you name the cases? There were no instances in the last 50 years according to my texts.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:14pm

And a director who wouldn't turn the piece into a manic, traditional rock musical in the same style of his best known work would help, as well.

I know there's a sort of vogue distaste toward Greif's work because of Rent, but while I do some sort of trademarks moments in Next to Normal, I have to disagree; I don't see that much that I'd say it's the same style. They're both rock shows, yes, but I don't know that you'd go in uninformed and come out of this saying, "oh, that must have been done by the guy who did Rent."

Also, I was saying this to a friend earlier; I can see where people are being rubbed the wrong way by the sort of "graze the surface" treatment of the illness and the medications, therapy, etc. But, at the same time, I find what's going on in the relationships to be so moving that... that's where the show's power is for me. I wouldn't go so far as to say that excuses things that people are taking issue with, because as I posted earlier, it's obviously something you relate to on a very, very personal level, but I think you... end up get being gripped by either one side or the other.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 05:14 PM

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:16pm

She wasn't given CASES. She's not studying it. She's in a facility and she and her father are having to make the decision over the next week or so. It's on the informed consent thing she and her father will have to sign as a warning. Maybe it's due to this stupid lawsuit happy society we live in, but it's on there as a VERY SLIGHT RISK. The brain is a tricky thing, and it can be very hard to predict what will happen.

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:18pm

But, at the same time, I find what's going on in the relationships to be so moving that... that's where the show's power is for me.

Exactly emcee. I don't think for a moment they intended this to be a documentary about mental health care. It's the relationships between the characters and in the characters themselves that's the heart of the show.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:23pm

The worst case scenario for ECT is a few years of memory loss, not total memory loss, so what is portrayed does NOT happen occasionally. The show goes far above and beyond the real worst case scenario into a ridiculous and sensationalized scenarios.

ok, so it's sensationalized a bit. I can buy that. But what's it hurting anyone for it to be sensationalized a little? In the end, her memory comes back and she's much more clear-headed than before. So even IF she totally looses her memory for a little while, it's still not creating a totally negative image of ECT treatment. I think the only reason they really felt it necessary to make her memory loss go that deep is to make it reasonable that she would have totally forgotten about Gabe. But again, that makes little difference in the long run, as her memory completely comes back within a couple of weeks.


But yes, as Emcee said, the show really is NOT about ECT at all, so it's kind of silly debating it. It's about the relationship between the characters, and the struggle that they go through. You don't walk out going "oooh, what do I think now of modern day ECT procedures?" :)

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 05:23 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:29pm

Well, that's not what I said. It's not NOT about ECT. Of course it is. That's just not the center of it. For me, anyway.

I think the risk in sensationalizing something is that it stops being realistic -- and if someone were to think it was realistic, that's not a good thing. Of course, you can't be responsible for any and all ignorance that the audience is going to bring in, but it is an issue. Hopefully things like the doctor's line... something like, "if a train leaves __ at, and another train leaves __ at..." in the midst of listing all the pills, and the very obvious ridiculousness of the Feeling Electric hallucination would keep people from thinking what they're seeing is completely realistic.

[Testing1232]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:31pm

Ok, Jordan... ya sold me !!! (btw, was great seein ya again last night !)

TDF did have a date left. Going to see it 2/17-

Going to "August" mat, and "N2N" at night ! Hows that for dysfunctional overload !!???

Hope I enjoy "N2N" as much as you !

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:33pm

ECT may be a part of it, but the heart of the show is about the family and their relationships ~ and Dan, Diana, and Natalie and their own coping strategies ~ or lack thereof. THAT is the center, the heart of the show. NOT "let's make a stage documentary about ECT."

And yay testing!! :) It was great to see you too~ Hope you enjoy it! I'll be in London that day. :) YAY! I'll see it again on the 19th.

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 05:33 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:37pm

The "very slight risk" is because of the lawsuit happy society. Even with extensive study, they're not entirely sure how/why it works the way it does, so the warning is a precaution for the off-chance that your case is the first one to ever experience total memory loss. It has not happened yet, which is my point.

I never said the show had to be a documentary of mental health care. There have been shows that accurately portray medical treatments without it overtaking or even interfering with the plotline, so I don't understand why the same couldn't have been accomplished with this story as well.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:45pm

Orangeskittles, I don't disagree. I think it might indeed have made more sense for them to have changed the story a little bit so that the case they portray wouldn't have to be such a hugely "off-chance" thing. But I just don't think it's a huge deal that they didn't change it, that's all. There's so much more to the show and the story, I just think no one is going to walk out thinking about how scary ECT sounds after seeing it or anything. So really, it's not a bad point to make that it's unrealistic. For me, it's just more of a minute one :)

Updated On: 2/10/08 at 05:45 PM

[KChenowethfan]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 5:56pm

I actually don't see very many parallels between Greif's direction of N2N and Rent. True, both have a rock musical quality, but one show is very intimate (N2N) (not simply because of the theatre size either) while the other is staged more like a rock concert with less classical/traditional musical theatre elements and influences.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/10/08 at 6:03pm

You can't say that the show isn't about ECT. It's a major part of the plotline, not some offhand comment like "AZT break!" When you dedicate that much time and attention to discussing the treatment, people are going to scrutinize it more closely.

I don't think Next to Normal is going to be the sole deciding factor in someone deciding to get ECT or not, but I'm merely disappointment in the overall trend of the portrayal of ECT in entertainment.