Racial Issues and BWW Posters- Page 2

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:29pm

And you had a black Javert before we did.

[Weez]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:31pm

We had a SMOKINGLY HOT black Javert!

Mind you, so did you guys. ^_^

[vmlinnie]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:33pm

In London there was (no longer) a kid called Matthew Koon who was British but his parents were from Hong Kong, but his father was played by Phil Whitechurch and his mom was Sarah Poyzer, both white English people. Although I'm sure some eyebrows were raised, no one came out of that theatre complaining, because they were all talking not about his appearance but how talented he was. There's also now Llayton Williams, a black Billy, and the same situation (although the dad is now played by a different actor), he's judged by the audience on talent, which he has.

[Weez]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:34pm

My drama teacher always used to say you should cast the most talented person for the role, and if they didn't look right, the audience would still be more forgiving than if you got a physically appropriate but crap actress to play the part. I must say, I concur. ^_^

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:36pm

So, again, I ask what the difference is between the all black Follies that were discussing or the all Asian Falsettos that was actually produced? And why does one ruffle feathers but the other doesn't?

[Weez]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:37pm

Because theatre queens are bitchy little critters who need *something* to complain about, and no one could be bothered starting another Mel Brooks hate thread? *shrugs* Who knows?

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:40pm

Weez, you really do seem to have a chip on your shoulder about this subject. Unless I'm just reading your sarcasm, in which case you agree with me. ANYway...

I'm actually all for colour blind casting (though I have more pause on the subject when the show is directly about race)--it doesn't bother me and I think I don't even really notice it, personally. I still think though that doing something like mor e"all black productions" causes some problems in this day in age. It could make some people see less reason to accept colour blind casting ("they can do their own production!") and make what little steps we have with that, fall away, likewise shoudl we start having "all hispanic" "all asian" castings too?

Eric, haven't we been discussing an all asian cast or did I misread something?

Updated On: 6/22/07 at 08:40 PM

[LizzieCurry]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:41pm

So, again, I ask what the difference is between the all black Follies that were discussing or the all Asian Falsettos that was actually produced? And why does one ruffle feathers but the other doesn't?

Because Asians just don't come across as interesting or discuss-able. I know because I am one.

[artscallion]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:41pm

"There are just more white actors than any other race."

True. There are also a lot more white top executives and white politicians and white producers and (insert successful job here). Does that mean there aren't many black people wanting jobs like that either? Or does it mean, in all these cases, that the opportunity is not afforded them?

How do you even become something like that when you grow up in a project? Racism is alive and well in America. Every single city that I've been to has a separate isolated ghetto of poor minorities, mostly black, who have inferior schools, jobs, lives and chances. And every day happy white people drive through or around them without giving that much thought, even socially conscious people. When you think about that, it's kind of outrageous.

Of course there are more white actors.

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:47pm

"My drama teacher always used to say you should cast the most talented person for the role, and if they didn't look right, the audience would still be more forgiving than if you got a physically appropriate but crap actress to play the part. I must say, I concur. ^_^
"
I agree--and I think non colour blind casting is COMPLETELY inexscusable in high school/student situations. I went to a high school with a very good musical theatre program but our artistic director (whow as talented but an ass) was pretty bad at being convinced to cast colour blind--going by talent. I grew up in Western Canada where there isn't a huge black population--but there is a HUGE Asian population and we had one girl who I was close to who was aJapanese exchange student (but spoke perfect English with no accent0 who really deserved far better parts than the dance ensemble type roles she'd get).

Kringas I think I'm not being clear.

In theory I think there is no real difference between an All Black FOllies and an All Asian Falsettos. You asked why one ruffled feathers on here and one didn't--my belief is at least part of the reason is the Asian production comes from an all Asian rep theatre company. The proposed Black Follies sounded like peopel wer etalking about an open ended "regular" Broadway revival that just happened to be explicitly all black-- Whether there should be or not that will strike people as quite different. They'd expect an Asian rep theatre company to stage productions that they might not regularly be cast in-- I'm not sayign oen is better than the other but I suspect if someone had posted an All Asian Follies thread they woulda gotten quite as imilar reaction

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 8:52pm

Oh, okay. I get what you're saying now, Eric. Thanks for expanding on that.

When you put it that way, I can see what you mean, except for the fact that musical theatre (and pretty much everything else in the US) is automatically stacked against minorities. If that's NOT intentional, what's so wrong with trying to mitigate some of the inequality?

Or even simpler question, what's so wrong with just speculating on all black cast? Why do people pretend they don't see the difference between a black Phyllis in Follies and a white Celie in Color Purple?

Updated On: 6/22/07 at 08:52 PM

[SahDu]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:21pm

The whole principal bothers me. What is the need to have an "All-(Race)" production of any show? If theatre is to be truly color-blind, than there should never be a show featuring a cast of one, exclusive race (unless, as mentioned, the show calls for it). The proposal of an All-Black cast, or an All-Hispanic cast, etc. appears, to me at least, just as racist as those who complain over it. Why specifically feature race in a show that does not call for it? Color-blind casting (although, I doubt will ever be the case) should be the norm in all situations. There should be no need to say in a casting notice "This show will feature an All-(Race) cast."

With regards to the proposed question, I'm with Eric. It seems to me that an Asian Rep company would be expected to provide shows with an All-Asian cast. Not to say that they wouldn't hire a non-Asian if they auditioned (I hope they would), but generally for a company run by a certain race, other members of that race will tend to gravitate towards and, therefore, audition for their productions.

Let me know if I'm not making myself clear. Thanks.


Updated On: 2/15/14 at 09:21 PM

[SueleenGay]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:23pm

When I first read about the Falsettos cast I thought, "Why did the poster feel that was important to mention?" When I read it was E/W Players I realized why. That is their purpose, to give Asian actors a chance to play great roles that they probably would never be cast in otherwise, unfortunately.
When I read about the all black Follies, I thought "Why?" What would be the point? Why could you not do Follies with a totally integrated cast? The show has NOTHING to do with race. They even avoided having a Bert Williams character, which frankly I believe would have been a stunning addition. Cast Victor Garber and Vanessa Williams as Ben and Phyllis. Cast Ben Vareen and Chita Rivera as Vincent and Vanessa. What would it possibly matter?
Now an all black version of Big River might cause some problems simply because the show is all about RACE.
But you don't need to do an all white Ain't Misbehavin' just so Kristen Chenowith can sing Mean To Me.

But why should this even be an issue?

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:27pm

So if the hypothetical all black Follies we discussed in that thread was hypothetically going to be done by a theatre who gave African-Americans the chance to play roles they wouldn't normally play, would THAT be different?

[SahDu]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:43pm

I just don't think there is a need to say a cast must be All-Black (or Asian, or Hispanic, etc.) If the performers who audition are all of once race (as would be expected at an Asian Rep, or an African-American Rep, or a Hispanic Rep, etc.), then the cast will, logically, be all of once race.

What is the need to say "Okay, we are going to make this cast all of once race!" Give the actors the roles they deserve. Auditions should not be restricted by race at the behest of the producers.

Edited for typos.


Updated On: 2/15/14 at 09:43 PM

[BigFatBlonde]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:49pm

As a white woman I know that MANY white people .. even the so called progressive ones don't ACTUALLY like to see people of a different race on stage. ESPECAILLY when they are cast in traditionally white roles. They may say otherwise in public, but in PRIVATE they get honest. It usually is preceded by the phrase... "I'm not racist, but..."

I wish we would just be honest. It freaks us out.

I, personally, am very comfortable with it, in fact encourage it, but lets stop PRETENDING that is doesn't weird us out a little. It is better in the long run if we are honest.

When Robert Guillaume took over the role of Phantom it FREAKED the f*ck out those lonely women who were obsessed with the show. They couldn't go and get their fantasy fix with the show, because to do would mean thinking sexual thoughts about a black man.

One of the things I like most about racially diverse casting is that it forces me to see a human in a dramatic situation and NOT a race. If I find myself seeing only a race, that is clearly MY issue.

I wish everyone would read "White like Me" by Tim Wise. It really hits home.

http://www.timwise.org/

[evadiva]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:50pm

All casting should be colorblind unless race/ethnicity is a central part of the story. (ie The Color Purple - I find the thought of a white Celie to be offensive!)

Other than that - CD's should see talent, not color.
Updated On: 6/22/07 at 09:50 PM

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:53pm

It's the snarkieness that those threads always encourage, because, like I said, people willfully want to act like there's no difference between a black Phyllis and a white Celie.

Say what you want, but at the end of the day it's just one more thread hypothesizing something that will never happen. BWW is full of the. For some reason, though, it just really rankles the feathers of some people. (Edited to note that BFB's "It freaks people out" was exactly what I was trying to say here)

And, I can't speak for everyone, but I know that it really hadn't occurred to me how many of those choices listed on the thread before it went awry were so perfect because it would never have occurred to me to cast black actors in the roles. I'd imagine other people might think that, too. Is that inherently racist? Probably. Am I proud of those thoughts? No.

Updated On: 6/22/07 at 09:53 PM

[C is for Company]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:58pm

Be careful not to mention Anessavay Illiamsway or we'll get more of those avatars popping up for a week once these wall ones die out.

[Kringas]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 9:59pm

Screw her "Could I Leave You?" I want to see her do "Lucy and Jessie."

[bjivie2]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 10:00pm

The race issue always goes back to whether or not the show itself is about race. If it is about race, then no, you can't change the race. If it's about ANYTHING ELSE and the original just happened to have Jewish actors or black actors or whatever, then it doesn't matter.

Falsettos is about love and family... color-blind casting okay

Ragtime is a historical show about the rifts between whites, Jews and blacks... color-blind casting not ok.

[evadiva]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 10:03pm

Well put by bj....

[NYC4Life]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 10:54pm

Well the thing is doing an all black or all asian cast is honestly just the middle ground because if people are all one race the audience does not have to do all the work. The crazy thing is most of the time it does not matter. Like the entire thing about america not having rich black people in the south, so Cat on a Hot Tin roof can't work is not true. I can prove that there were and can fight most arguments about that show. All of the litte picking over what does not make since is just silly and most of the time the arguments can be shot down. Let minorities get to play amazing roles and get over it is my final point. Theatre is Art so stop making it anything else.

[AnnaK<3LMIP]

Posted: 6/22/07 at 11:33pm

Ok, but really, does it not make The Lion King so much more interesting if most, if not all, of the cast is black?

I'm not disagreeing with any of you, I just wanted to throw that one out there. Because I frankly would not want to see a white Simba. I remember a BWWer and I once got into an arguement about a black or white Mufasa or Simba, because I said that there's nothing racist with me saying that I wouldn't want to see a white Simba or Mufasa, and she/he/i don't know said it's racist against black people. I'm not sure how but that was what was said.

I know there are white people in The Lion King. But everytime I've seen the Lion King, the fact that black actors were playing certain roles (such as Mufasa and Simba, etc...) made the show more...I'm not sure, what it was supposed to be, I suppose. It's not even the fact that it's taking place in Africa...
anyone following, or am I spewing crap?

[evadiva]

Posted: 6/23/07 at 12:16am

I think you feel the way you do because because the show is set in Africa with the African language. Therefore ethnicity is an integral part of the show. Those beautiful authentic African voices are AMAZING!
Updated On: 6/23/07 at 12:16 AM