Raul Esparza at Seth's Broadway Chatterbox!! — Page 4
#77
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:00pm
I love you too, sweetie. 
A work of art is an invitation to love.
#78
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:03pm
Karen, your post interested me quite alot. Enough so that I went back a reread the thread. I can say that 99% of the posts directed toward Raul's talents and how everyone was completely blown away by what he is capable of. That night he made a comment about how the message board during previews really shape how others view the show and can determine if people see the show or not. This was when they were discussing Taboo. I joined the board around the same time Taboo was closing so I can not comment on what was said. But I assume people were pointing out what needed to be worked on.
Shouldnt we be happy that people are posting how much they liked something, and not focusing on the negative?
Shouldnt we be happy that people are posting how much they liked something, and not focusing on the negative?
I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!
#79
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:13pm
I'm not just referring to this thread though. There is a 40-page thread somewhere that I semi-followed weeks ago, and as I said, the discussions were way different than how they were a few years ago. And I am all for people enjoying his talents and am more than happy that he's getting a lot of attention for his work. I don't know that I would have said as much as I did if feinstein hadn't opened the dialogue, and I was responding to the comments about the "intensity" of people's expressions of late. I don't see how that focuses "on the negative."
"The applause of all but very good men is no more than the precise measure of their possible hostility."
Updated On: 9/27/04 at 01:13 PM
#80
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:17pm
'I don't see how that focuses "on the negative."'
Sorry! I was not clear about that. I was refering to people not liking Taboo and posting their critisms about it.
EDIT: I cant really comment on the "40 pg thread" I really didnt post on that much.
Sorry! I was not clear about that. I was refering to people not liking Taboo and posting their critisms about it.
EDIT: I cant really comment on the "40 pg thread" I really didnt post on that much.
I want to write music. I want to sit down right now at my piano and write a song that people will listen to and remember and do the same thing every morning...for the rest of my life. - Jonathan Larson. Tick, Tick...BOOM!
Updated On: 9/26/04 at 01:17 PM
#81
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:19pm
I'm not saying that (even though a bit guilty of it - which I regret, thank you - in the wee hours of the morning) the things that are said are excusable, but with recognition, that's going to come. Look at someone like Michael Arden: up-and-coming, very attractive, extraordinarily talented, and suddenly now that he's got a fan base, people are saying he needs body guards. A bit drastic, I think, but it's the principle that's interesting. Good and bad, it all comes with "fame."
A work of art is an invitation to love.
#82
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:24pm
I think what comes into play here is the type of fans Emcee, TGIF, and myself are. We love Raul (and Michael Arden as well in my case) but we respect their work more than anything. I can say that I was a fan of Raul and Michael before I saw what they looked like, or what they were like. I heard them before I saw them, and that's what got me interested. Making general terms about "fans" before realizing what we truly see in a performer isn't productive or positive at all.
#83
Posted: 9/26/04 at 1:50pm
You know what Karen? As far as acting, Raul Esparza is probably the biggest inspiration I have right now. And I'm sorry I find him extremely attractive. And I'm sorry not one day goes by when I don't praise EVERY SINGLE OUNCE of this man to anyone who will listen. I'm sorry the sound of his voice makes me happy, and I'm sorry that the thought of performers like Raul gracing the stages of Broadway gives me some hope for the future of musical theatre. I'm sorry I've made friends discussing the talents and beauty (inside and out) of this man. I'm sorry for joking with my friends about your so-called innuendo and having a wonderful time doing so. I'm sorry, heaven forbid, for getting Raul Esparza out there, in whichever way I please. Raul Esparza is, in my opinion, the most gorgeous, unearthly talented, down to earth man on Broadway, and if thinking that makes me a teenybopper, so be it. You can't ruin my fun and the fun of my friends with this, and I don't think I'll feel guilty for thinking the things I do about him anymore.
"The stage is where I live and come alive and act out all the things that go on in my life. It's not just what I do for a living, it's my shrink and my love affair. No one in my life has ever or ever will kiss me on the mouth like this lover called my relationship with my performance."
Updated On: 9/26/04 at 01:50 PM
#84
Posted: 9/26/04 at 2:48pm
I think this is completely unreasonable. Karen, I know damn well part of that post was aimed at me. As Emcee already stated it was my birthday, I wanted to be there and couldn't, I am a huge fan of his and I wanted to tell him. There's nothing wrong with praising someone's incredible talents. I think you are being utterly rediculous. Who are you to judge who and how we admire someone. You market him in a sense and lobby to improve his fanbase then criticize those who agree. We have never disrespected him in anyway. We feel nothing but complete admiration for the man. I agree with everything that has been said by Emcee, MyNameInLight, TGITF, and AG and I don't want this to be a war of any sort but you're priorities are severely out of order!
#85
Posted: 9/26/04 at 3:16pm
Karen, I guess I can understand why some of the things on that '40-page thread- would bother you, but really, it's all jokes. We do love him for more than his pretty face. It is his incredible talent as a preformer to make me believe him in every role he's taken that makes me a fan. The thread may have seemed a bit overboard to someone else, but it was meant in a joking manner and was not without original good intentions. Anyone in the spotlight will experience things like this, Raul is no different.
#86
Posted: 9/26/04 at 3:48pm
Feinstein made a comment in a post about the "intensity" of the fans of late and I responded to it. How does that have anything to do my priorities? What priorities? Like I said in one of my posts, I'm sure no one really intends to send him around in a box or any of those jokes you guys have been posting. But again, as I said, people are talking about him and objectifying him like he's not a person. I know it comes with "fame" or whatever you'd like to call it in his case - I can't begin to imagine what it's like for movie stars and international celebrities. But that doesn't mean that I can't offer my own opinion about it when the topic is raised. I mean, now that I've said something to upset some people, you're all coming around and saying "It's his talent, it's his talent!" and that's great, I believe you, but there's no denying that 40-page "Rauly" thread.
Yes, by doing his website I am helping to market his career. But check anywhere on that site and let me know if you find material about anything other than his *work*. You have your way of paying tribute and I have mine. I was merely offering my opinion and if anyone is so utterly offended by it, then I suppose you can ignore me, as I sometimes choose to ignore some of the more disturbing topics here. But as I've already said, I was merely adding my thoughts to a topic since it had been broached. And if you go back to my first post, you'll see that I wasn't saying that anyone needed to stop or that everyone here is a freak. And TMC, I read LTM's post about it being your birthday. I brought that up because it was something that happened just two days ago and it was still fresh in my mind. I've seen posts about seeing him on the street or seeing his phone number in a phone book (because the person was looking up Raul Esparka, perhaps?). It's nothing personal, I was just recounting what I saw. And I realize that people are feeling very passionate about this right now and have probably decided to read something really negative in my post, when my intention was only to explain what I thought was "teenybopper" behavior (and not the judgment of it) and to say that I wasn't sure why all of this was happening now and not three years ago. It's great that so many people are showing support and appreciation for his work and his talent. No one is saying it's evil to be a teenybopper, although it seems you've decided that that's what I said, so I guess there's not much I can do about that.
Yes, by doing his website I am helping to market his career. But check anywhere on that site and let me know if you find material about anything other than his *work*. You have your way of paying tribute and I have mine. I was merely offering my opinion and if anyone is so utterly offended by it, then I suppose you can ignore me, as I sometimes choose to ignore some of the more disturbing topics here. But as I've already said, I was merely adding my thoughts to a topic since it had been broached. And if you go back to my first post, you'll see that I wasn't saying that anyone needed to stop or that everyone here is a freak. And TMC, I read LTM's post about it being your birthday. I brought that up because it was something that happened just two days ago and it was still fresh in my mind. I've seen posts about seeing him on the street or seeing his phone number in a phone book (because the person was looking up Raul Esparka, perhaps?). It's nothing personal, I was just recounting what I saw. And I realize that people are feeling very passionate about this right now and have probably decided to read something really negative in my post, when my intention was only to explain what I thought was "teenybopper" behavior (and not the judgment of it) and to say that I wasn't sure why all of this was happening now and not three years ago. It's great that so many people are showing support and appreciation for his work and his talent. No one is saying it's evil to be a teenybopper, although it seems you've decided that that's what I said, so I guess there's not much I can do about that.
"The applause of all but very good men is no more than the precise measure of their possible hostility."
#87
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:17pm
Hi, remember what Raul said at the Chatterbox about people on message boards? He made it perfectly clear that he reads these message boards. How are you not ashamed of the things you've said about him? How can you say you're not disrespecting him? It is one thing to think things and make jokes with your friends, but it is quite another to post them on a public message board. Use your common sense. You're not that young.
P.S. I know what all of you look like. Maybe I have pictures of you in my room. Maybe there are darts in the pictures. Or maybe I use them to picture you naked. But I admire your talent first and foremost.
P.P.S. Wow, TMC, I literally could care less that it was your birthday. On my birthday, I think I'll come over your house and scream in your ear. HEY, IT'S MY BIRTHDAY!
P.S. I know what all of you look like. Maybe I have pictures of you in my room. Maybe there are darts in the pictures. Or maybe I use them to picture you naked. But I admire your talent first and foremost.
P.P.S. Wow, TMC, I literally could care less that it was your birthday. On my birthday, I think I'll come over your house and scream in your ear. HEY, IT'S MY BIRTHDAY!
Updated On: 9/26/04 at 04:17 PM
#88
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:21pm
Okay, I've been lurking on this and the 40 page thread for a while. I'm coming out of my hole to put in my two cents:
It's clear that you guys (generally speaking, Esparza Heads) admire all of Raul's talents. Great! There's no reason to apologize for or justify that.
However-- it wouldn't hurt to USE DISCRETION. Keep in mind that you have control over what you say about Raul on a public forum, but he does not. Do you think he would find all of this as funny as you do? It's understandable that a conversation can turn silly or that people can get carried away. But some of what has been said, even if in jest, is in bad taste. Referring to his wife as "wifey"? Joking about having his phone number? I definitely see where he's being objectified. It's creepy. And there's plenty of innuendo to be found, MyNameInLights; check out your own signature line. Edit: Well, your former sig.
So yeah, please put some thought into what you post.
It's clear that you guys (generally speaking, Esparza Heads) admire all of Raul's talents. Great! There's no reason to apologize for or justify that.
However-- it wouldn't hurt to USE DISCRETION. Keep in mind that you have control over what you say about Raul on a public forum, but he does not. Do you think he would find all of this as funny as you do? It's understandable that a conversation can turn silly or that people can get carried away. But some of what has been said, even if in jest, is in bad taste. Referring to his wife as "wifey"? Joking about having his phone number? I definitely see where he's being objectified. It's creepy. And there's plenty of innuendo to be found, MyNameInLights; check out your own signature line. Edit: Well, your former sig.
So yeah, please put some thought into what you post.
Updated On: 9/26/04 at 04:21 PM
#89
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:27pm
*big sigh*
I just read what you wrote three times, Karen, because honestly, this had been bothering a few of us for a while. I feel like what you're saying is a bit double-sided, but I *do* understand. I also think that a major issue here is that online, it's incredibly hard to tell how certain comments are meant to be taken. You say that the teenybopper comment was not intended to be offensive, but in print, it was. No one is warping your comments; that's how it came off, whether intended or not. One of the perils of internet usage, I suppose. Things that aren't to be offensive are taken as such, they *do* seem like they're being judgmental, and that's unfortunate. But as for things that *are* offensive - that's just not fair.
Secondly, no. There is no denying that thread. There, I said it. Half of what I posted was at 2 a.m. I simply shouldn't be allowed to have conversations at that hour - I was tired and probably stressed out, and that resulted in things I probably should not have said. I can't speak for others, but that needs to be said and understood. I'm admitting that I've learned a lesson about toning things down. But, with that, I must comment on this:
"now that I've said something to upset some people, you're all coming around and saying 'It's his talent, it's his talent!'"
Before you said anything, we were discussing his talent. Britt posted to talk about the Chatterbox, and that's what we were doing. I re-read a lot of the posts after hers, and they're all about how wonderfully talented he is. To say what you said is to say that we were simply fawning over looks until your posts upset us, and then (and ONLY then) did we feel the need to justify our comments with a conventional, stock answer. That's not the way it was.
"It's nothing personal, I was just recounting what I saw."
See, thing is, it *was* personal. You isolated a single incident that - aside from an excited message board post - you knew nothing about. There was no need to make any of these statements personal. That makes it seem even *more* offensive.
This is getting ridiculous, already. I'm 18. When Raul was doing Cabaret and Tick, Tick... BOOM! I was too young for those shows - too young both to appreciate them or to understand them. I've known OF Raul for a few years, but am just recently becoming a fan because I've finally been graced with the opportunity to see him. It seems like you want him to gain exposure, but not attention. I'm not sure that makes sense to me, but it's not all that important, I suppose.
As for the website: of COURSE it's only about his work. Would other, objective, non-valid material belong on an offial site? No.
And finally... "people are talking about him and objectifying him like he's not a person."
Please. How many times do I need to repeat myself? This is where words like "thrusting" cause this issue to become offensive. I know that I (as well as the other people involved here) would never, EVER do anything disrespectful or anything but treat someone like Raul as the wonderful person that they are. I have NOTHING but respect for him. Nothing.
KatePrinceton - your post strikes me as terribly immature. You speak of disrespect; what about your comment toward TMC? Disrespect much? I've already addressed the issue of appropriate/inappropriate postings. I've already (in THIS post) admitted that I was wrong. I'm not going to type it out again for you.
This has all effectively ruined how much fun I had on Thurdsay night. Thank you for that.
And with that, I have a paper to write.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
I just read what you wrote three times, Karen, because honestly, this had been bothering a few of us for a while. I feel like what you're saying is a bit double-sided, but I *do* understand. I also think that a major issue here is that online, it's incredibly hard to tell how certain comments are meant to be taken. You say that the teenybopper comment was not intended to be offensive, but in print, it was. No one is warping your comments; that's how it came off, whether intended or not. One of the perils of internet usage, I suppose. Things that aren't to be offensive are taken as such, they *do* seem like they're being judgmental, and that's unfortunate. But as for things that *are* offensive - that's just not fair.
Secondly, no. There is no denying that thread. There, I said it. Half of what I posted was at 2 a.m. I simply shouldn't be allowed to have conversations at that hour - I was tired and probably stressed out, and that resulted in things I probably should not have said. I can't speak for others, but that needs to be said and understood. I'm admitting that I've learned a lesson about toning things down. But, with that, I must comment on this:
"now that I've said something to upset some people, you're all coming around and saying 'It's his talent, it's his talent!'"
Before you said anything, we were discussing his talent. Britt posted to talk about the Chatterbox, and that's what we were doing. I re-read a lot of the posts after hers, and they're all about how wonderfully talented he is. To say what you said is to say that we were simply fawning over looks until your posts upset us, and then (and ONLY then) did we feel the need to justify our comments with a conventional, stock answer. That's not the way it was.
"It's nothing personal, I was just recounting what I saw."
See, thing is, it *was* personal. You isolated a single incident that - aside from an excited message board post - you knew nothing about. There was no need to make any of these statements personal. That makes it seem even *more* offensive.
This is getting ridiculous, already. I'm 18. When Raul was doing Cabaret and Tick, Tick... BOOM! I was too young for those shows - too young both to appreciate them or to understand them. I've known OF Raul for a few years, but am just recently becoming a fan because I've finally been graced with the opportunity to see him. It seems like you want him to gain exposure, but not attention. I'm not sure that makes sense to me, but it's not all that important, I suppose.
As for the website: of COURSE it's only about his work. Would other, objective, non-valid material belong on an offial site? No.
And finally... "people are talking about him and objectifying him like he's not a person."
Please. How many times do I need to repeat myself? This is where words like "thrusting" cause this issue to become offensive. I know that I (as well as the other people involved here) would never, EVER do anything disrespectful or anything but treat someone like Raul as the wonderful person that they are. I have NOTHING but respect for him. Nothing.
KatePrinceton - your post strikes me as terribly immature. You speak of disrespect; what about your comment toward TMC? Disrespect much? I've already addressed the issue of appropriate/inappropriate postings. I've already (in THIS post) admitted that I was wrong. I'm not going to type it out again for you.
This has all effectively ruined how much fun I had on Thurdsay night. Thank you for that.
And with that, I have a paper to write.
#90
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:40pm
Dear luvtheEmcee,
1. I can't speak for Karen, but I'm totally NOT SORRY if I offended you. In fact, if you weren't offended, I'd be really disappointed.
2. The fact that you posted at 2 am does not excuse any of what you said. Maybe you should stop having conversations at that hour. I don't give a flying *bleep* that you're stressed out. Maybe you should be studying instead of saying inappropriate things about an actor on a message board.
3. Raul has 18-year-old fans who saw him in Rocky Horror, ttB!, and Cabaret. Real fans. Fans who would never put the word "heads" after his last name.
4. Re: my comment toward TMC, wow, the tables sure have turned, haven't they? HI KETTLE, YOU'RE BLACK! It's called "a taste of your own medicine." Jesus, how did you get into Barnard? Casting couch?
5. This has all effectively ruined how much fun I had on Thurdsay night. Thank you for that.
You're welcome, dollface! Thanks for playing! Do come again real soon!
1. I can't speak for Karen, but I'm totally NOT SORRY if I offended you. In fact, if you weren't offended, I'd be really disappointed.
2. The fact that you posted at 2 am does not excuse any of what you said. Maybe you should stop having conversations at that hour. I don't give a flying *bleep* that you're stressed out. Maybe you should be studying instead of saying inappropriate things about an actor on a message board.
3. Raul has 18-year-old fans who saw him in Rocky Horror, ttB!, and Cabaret. Real fans. Fans who would never put the word "heads" after his last name.
4. Re: my comment toward TMC, wow, the tables sure have turned, haven't they? HI KETTLE, YOU'RE BLACK! It's called "a taste of your own medicine." Jesus, how did you get into Barnard? Casting couch?
5. This has all effectively ruined how much fun I had on Thurdsay night. Thank you for that.
You're welcome, dollface! Thanks for playing! Do come again real soon!
Updated On: 9/26/04 at 04:40 PM
#91
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:43pm
That was by far the most immature post I have ever read on this board.
I'm sure Raul will be proud of you, KatePrinceton2.
I'm sure Raul will be proud of you, KatePrinceton2.
#92
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:50pm
Half of what I posted was at 2 a.m. I simply shouldn't be allowed to have conversations at that hour - I was tired and probably stressed out, and that resulted in things I probably should not have said.
Hardly an excuse. It's only 4:43 PM, and I'm all of the above on top of being drunk and crazy.
Hardly an excuse. It's only 4:43 PM, and I'm all of the above on top of being drunk and crazy.
#93
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:53pm
That was by far the most immature post I have ever read on this board.
Oh no, you think I'm immature? How will I ever wake up in the morning!
I'm sure Raul will be proud of you, KatePrinceton2.
Oh, you have NO idea.
Oh no, you think I'm immature? How will I ever wake up in the morning!
I'm sure Raul will be proud of you, KatePrinceton2.
Oh, you have NO idea.
#94
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:53pm
Two can play this game.
1. Oh, you didn't offend me. Lucky for you, I've got more dignity AND maturity than to be offended by that (which, by the way, would be how I got in). Sorry to disappoint.
2. What I said wasn't even the half of the "inappropriate." There was way worse. Don't just flame me. Don't like my excuse? Poor baby. I'm admitting I was wrong.
3. *I* did not coin the term. I don't even know who did. Check your facts, darling. And, it's simple as this: had it been my choice, I'd have seen Rocky Horror and TTB and I'd have seen Cabaret sooner. Unfortunately, my parents dicatated one too many of my actions.
4. Sarcasm. OFFENSIVE sarcasm.
A work of art is an invitation to love.
1. Oh, you didn't offend me. Lucky for you, I've got more dignity AND maturity than to be offended by that (which, by the way, would be how I got in). Sorry to disappoint.
2. What I said wasn't even the half of the "inappropriate." There was way worse. Don't just flame me. Don't like my excuse? Poor baby. I'm admitting I was wrong.
3. *I* did not coin the term. I don't even know who did. Check your facts, darling. And, it's simple as this: had it been my choice, I'd have seen Rocky Horror and TTB and I'd have seen Cabaret sooner. Unfortunately, my parents dicatated one too many of my actions.
4. Sarcasm. OFFENSIVE sarcasm.
#95
Posted: 9/26/04 at 4:59pm
One more time: I was respondinng to a post by feinstein talking about how the intensity of the fans has grown in recent times, that it wasn't present three years ago. I was referring to posts I'd been reading over the past several weeks, NOT just this thread. I didn't just decide out of nowhere to start attacking people's fandom and questioning their respect. The topic was raised and I responded to it. If this discussion ruined your enjoyment of Thursday night, would it help you if I told you that the Rauly/Esparza Head thread effectively ruined my enjoyment of being a fan to begin with?
And now that this has degenerated into an all-out flame war, I guess my work here is done. [sarcasm for those who can't read it] Whoooo boy...
And now that this has degenerated into an all-out flame war, I guess my work here is done. [sarcasm for those who can't read it] Whoooo boy...
"The applause of all but very good men is no more than the precise measure of their possible hostility."
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