Stage hand strike

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 9:47am

I don't know many jobs where we can tell management how many people we need to do the job. I wish I could tell the company I work for, you made record profits this year, so I am entitled to this much money and I need this many people to do this job!!! It is time for the stagehands to realize this is not the 1950's, technology has arrived and you do not need the same number of people to run a show as you did years ago. Stagehands love load ins and load outs, they make great money doing this and many times people are either standing around doing nothing or they don'e even show up, but they are paid!!They make terrific money and what has not been mentioned is that many of them also work Radio City, Madison Sq. Garden, many of the soaps and shows that film in NY. In cases of MSG, it is known that if they are working to set up after a hockey game, they are paid in cash because the Producer's cannot afford what is in their contract. Nice deal! You can't get into this union, it is all family, passed down from generation to generation, once in awhile they let outsider's in, but they are not treated well, they are treated as outsider's. I would love to have this job, if you really knew all the details, people would be lining up to do this work!! It is a great gig and these guy's know it, I really wish the Producer's would hold their ground, but the problem is Local One has too many NY Politician's in their pockets!! So the theater goer will be the one to lose when the ticket prices go up again!

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 9:55am

Thank you, Ms. St. Martin for that stirring piece of propaganda, your check is in the mail.

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:04am

Why don't you read what the stagehands are asking for: to be paid for work that is not done!!! Do you not understand??? I am all for being paid a fair wage but when a union will not bend and is demanding with today's technology that there be a certain amount of people at a job when it is not needed is crazy. It is sad that unions have become so powerful due to Political connections!!!

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:17am

"It is sad that unions have become so powerful due to Political connections!!!"


Are you saying, it's because of these mythical political connections, that the League left the table and refused to negotiate? There isn't going to be a settlement, if one side decides that they will no longer bargain in good faith.

The Union has been without a contract since July, but they continued to work. The Union has continued to work even though the League imposed new work rules on the Union without having a contract. Where's the good faith? Where's the collective bargaining? If the League were truly interested in not having to deal with a strike they'd be at the table trying to work out an agreement, instead of walking away and leaving the Union with the only option it has to force negotiations.

[majortom1981]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:20am

This union is selfish. This effects more then them. The union leaders also dont care about the lesser members on the union. there are a lot of plays that wont be able to outlast this strike. They have to pay the actors and everyone else and refund the money. The smaller plays would have tol oclosse down and a lot of stagehands will have no jobs to comeback to.

I fidn that very selfish. I hope the city does to this union what they did to the mta union. (by the way the city sued them and won)

By the way. I am in a union(csea) and I hate it
Updated On: 11/10/07 at 10:20 AM

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:28am

Of course they continued to work, wouldn't you making a minimum of $100,000??? The head of a house makes much more than that, then add on the extra jobs, MSG, Radio City, The VIew, Soaps etc. are you kidding me??? Please let's not feel bad for these guy's they are making more money at the age of 18 with no skills then someone getting out of college with a degree!! When a play folds, they lose NOTHING, they are absorbed by another house, they lose NOTHING!!! Funny the Producer's and the investor's lose everything!!!

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:38am

Both sides are at fault. When they (producers)started the premium seat nonsense, they gave the union ammunition to use against them . I addition, any money producers saved will not go to reducing prices. A pox on both their houses.

The TWU workers in the subway are a joke. Overpaid & underworked.They regularly fail to put on escalators forcing people to climb stairs. They sit around (or stand around) talking & sleeping but hey we need them right?

Unions were needed long ago & still are. When they start dictating terms & threatening other peoples livelihood than they need to be punished with whatever the law allows.

Now Just A Guy make sure you chime in & rip into me because I have the audacity to disagreee with you. I am a bad bad person.

Updated On: 11/10/07 at 10:38 AM

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:54am

I agree Mr. Roxy both sides are at fault but bottom line is many productions do fail and who takes the hit. I too hate the premium seating and the restoration charge on the tickets, but when you have all these unions, stagehands, musicians, actor's, electricians, etc. you do have to protect yourself and try to make money to pay back your investor's. If Broadway never made money, we would not have any shows. Neil Simon said years ago, it is too expensive to put a show on Broadway. so sad one of our best is not being seen on Broadway due to the cost.

[sievep]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:56am

Mr Roxy, I think you are totally right. Both sides are at fault, and it will be interesting to see what the outcome is. Until then, further outcries from this community and others only makes the problem worse.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 11:06am

"Of course they continued to work, wouldn't you making a minimum of $100,000???"

Surely, your not trying to say that every member of Local One makes a minimum of $100,000 a year? That's just a bald-faced lie.

"Please let's not feel bad for these guy's they are making more money at the age of 18 with no skills then someone getting out of college with a degree!!"

The fact that your calling members of Local One unskilled simply makes you look stupid. Can you rig a fly, can you run the automation required to move a set piece, can you program vari-lites, a computerized lightboard, sound console...? And what makes you think that there are no college educated Union memebers?

"When a play folds, they lose NOTHING, they are absorbed by another house, they lose NOTHING!!!"

You're just plain wrong on this, when a play closes they lose their jobs just like everyone else. They are not automatically absorbed into another show. If the other show is fully staffed, they don't just automatically make room for their unemployed brethren, that's just false, and it show your lack of knowledge.

"Funny the Producer's and the investor's lose everything!!!"

Which is the risk that the Producers and investors knowingly take when they decide to mount a production. If the producers and investors opt to take that risk why does it suddenly become the fault of the Unions when the show fails? It's not like the Union is surprising them with new and unknown rules...it's all in the contract. If you don't have a decent GM to careful guard against cost overuns, that's not the Unions fault, it's the fault of the producers.

Updated On: 11/10/07 at 11:06 AM

[Lynnespock2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 11:19am

If you hate your union, CSEA, ask for the union dues back. Don't take the raises in pay or benefits that are negotiated by them. Don't participate in any welfare fund offerings or any pension plans. Get a job without a union!

[Tkt2Ride]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 12:10pm

^^no kidding! Like they are striking for their next Mecedes! Unbelievable. How terrible is it that after working 20 yrs that you have equity! Tell that to those who are holding back for their second or third condo in New York?

Go ahead, compare stagehands salaries to even the bottom line of investors, I dare you! They put in money often earned on the stock market, nothing they have ever worked for but gained by the hard work of Americans who will never see the money they will. Even at a loss, most investors will survive and they have had a hefty tax cut recently. If you cannot afford a loss, you should not be giving your money to a Producer. End of story.

Not everyone wants to devote their lives to money but almost everyone wants to be able to own their own Home or be able retire someday.

Again, you are saying that stagehands, actors et all should give you back money if you decide to invest in a lousy script or fail to research the market for what the people say they want or can afford? Well just ask Mel. He offered tickets at a premium for how long? I guess we just found out how much of a fool the Market is and who will pay for premium tickets. Unfortunately, many, like those in the Theatre Business won't now be able to afford to buy them, if they ever were in the first place.

These people are at the mercy of whatever investors, producers bring to their arena. If they perform a service, they get paid. Again, this is more complaining and blaming for bad investments. I see most of this as Producers blaming the workers who bring their production to life, rather than being responsible for the mistakes they have made. So much easier to blame others for your mistakes. Perhaps investors should start writing clauses that say Producers must pay them a percentage of their losses back, no matter what happens to a show, even if it is beyond their circumstances. If they did, then Producers would be a lot more careful with the stuff they throw at us on Broadway.

They would sell a whole lot more tickets if they kept them reasonable. Too many times they rely on discount houses to sell their tickets forgetting that the general public doesn't use them and thus many who might come out to see a show just don't because the initial price was just too steep for the avg. theatre goer.

This getting paid for nothing saga has already been solved. Catch up with the program here. How about getting paid millions for something you neither wrote or performed in? This is a high risk business. It is not for the weak of heart.

Again, you do not get something for nothing. If you ask people to do more work, especially dangerous work, you are just going to have to pay them.

These same workers obeyed a picketline for the Musicians. They will stand-up for the Actors when their time comes. I know this effects everyone but this is Entertainment people. It isn't like you will die if you miss a show. It sucks but at least we can have a refund. Some people, who are needed for a shows safety won't be or don't have a job right now. This getting paid for nothing BS is a cheap shot from those who wouldn't dare show you their real bottom line earnings for the year.

Every retailer that I know of, union or not has the four minimum even Walmart. Let's get educated please!

I am sorry for those involved but only the most ignorant in the business did not see this strike coming. If you think it is bad now, imagine if they waited until January. At least now, you might get a temp job. Come Jan. good luck!

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 7:36pm

Just A Guy...Many of my friend's are stagehands so I know very well what I am talking about. While I am happy that they are able to command this money, I still do not think it is fair that in this day and age when you DO NOT NEED all these bodies due to technology they are still demanding more people than are needed!! My friend at the age of 18 with no prior experience and not yet in the union, his first year made just under $100,000. Ten years later, in the union and is making a fortune as are his brother's, Father and uncles! I have been back stage for their weekly set rehearsals, where they test all the props etc. and have been shown exactly what each of them do! Not too difficult, an excel spreadsheet is more difficult, if you have half a brain you can pick it up. As for the comment about being absorbed by another show, let me explain what I mean. When a house goes dark, the stagehands in the house that has gone dark, will do vacation days at other houses. So if someone takes a vacation they fill in. My friend was going to college and he would fill in for his relatives and was able to make $50,000, just filling in for people and he was not in the union. He actually finished college and decided to work in what he calls, THE FAMILY BUSINESS! Why, because he cannot make this kind of money just out of college!! I find that very sad. Everyone is entitled to a decent salary for a job well done, but their demands are over the top! If you check the stats, you will find very few that are college educated!!! There is no reason to be, this is a closed union. They allow only a few people in, that do not have the family lineage and if you don't believe that you are really out of the loop and know nothing about this union!!! I love the quote on the homepage from the stagehand...WE CAN'T TALK TO NOBODY...hmmm does that sound like a college graduate???

[Neverandy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 7:41pm

The very nature of the agreement says that they can make demands when the contract is up. That's negotiations under collective bargaining. The League has decided to negotiate with IATSE, and is likewise able to make their own demands. If the league doesn't like it they can choose to use non-union workers.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 7:46pm

"If you check the stats, you will find very few that are college educated!!!"

I'd love to see the stats, do you have a link? And maybe a link that shows just how many are making $100,000 a year too.

Sorry, I don't believe that 10 years ago, any stage hand made $100,000 and I'm pretty leery that the average stage hand makes anything close to that today. It's great that you have these "friends" to supply you with all this inside information, but how bout some verifiable information, that we all can see.

"I have been back stage for their weekly set rehearsals, where they test all the props etc. and have been shown exactly what each of them do! Not too difficult, an excel spreadsheet is more difficult, if you have half a brain you can pick it up."

News Flash, a weekly work call in no way shows what is needed to run a show, if you think that's the case, the you are the one that's out of the loop.

"if you don't believe that you are really out of the loop and know nothing about this union!!!"

It's true, I've only done 5 B'way shows, so I know nothing about this union...yup..yup..yup, right you are, absolutely nothing. So, I'll just have to rely on the information that you get from your unidentified "friends".

"I love the quote on the homepage from the stagehand...WE CAN'T TALK TO NOBODY...hmmm does that sound like a college graduate???"

Have you listened to any of President Bush's news conferences? Does he sound like a college graduate?

Updated On: 11/10/07 at 07:46 PM

[chinto1984]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 8:04pm

Just a Guy:

You like to stir the water.

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 8:50pm

Just a guy, I see you must be a stage hand and I will no longer debate you. Good luck with your strike!!!! For you and your "BROTHER'S" sake, let's hope the economy stays healthy, or you will no longer have jobs!! As it is, most theater goers are tourists, bad economy, no more tourists!! Oh my, then what will happen to all these college educated, professional CARPENTERS??? Will they be able to do anything else??? Can they join the work force of corporate America?? I doubt it since corporate America is in the year 2007 and Local One is back in the 1950's!!!

[Missy37]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 9:14pm

NYC2 - you are very ignorant. There are many educated stagehands. Stagehands are very hard working. Have you ever been involved in a browadway load in or load out? Are you back stage seeing what goes on? They work six days a week. They work most holidays. They have to come in for rehearsals, photo calls, work calls, special calls. They do not get paid for vacation. In the corporate world, most people get two or three weeks paid vacation. They take off, they don't get paid.

[JustAGuy]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 9:29pm

"Just a guy, I see you must be a stage hand and I will no longer debate you."

Just like the rest of your posts, you're wrong on this point as well. I'm not a stagehand, I'm a stage manager, so I work very closely with the members of Local One, and have a fairly clear understanding of what they actually do backstage. I don't have to rely on the here-say of "friends".

"Oh my, then what will happen to all these college educated, professional CARPENTERS??? Will they be able to do anything else???"

Gosh, I dunno will they? I suppose when the economy collapses and Broadway shutters they'll just have to go to work in another venue, you know like the ones you mentioned in your very first post: "They make terrific money and what has not been mentioned is that many of them also work Radio City, Madison Sq. Garden, many of the soaps and shows that film in NY."

It seems you really have a problem with anyone being college educated and also working as a stagehand, what's that about?

Oh, and thanks for all the links that you provided to back up your assertions, they were very helpful.

"I doubt it since corporate America is in the year 2007 and Local One is back in the 1950's!!!"

And since you're not a stagehand, why does that bother you?

Oh, before I forget, tell Charlotte I said Hi, and that she should should look for a better spokesperson for the League. Because you're not doing such a great job.

Updated On: 11/10/07 at 09:29 PM

[BroadwayBound86]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 9:42pm

While I do believe each side it at fault I also see the point of view from both sides. It's a risky buisness to get involved with.

With some of the points that are being made in this thread I do have to wonder though

I still do not think it is fair that in this day and age when you DO NOT NEED all these bodies due to technology they are still demanding more people than are needed!!

So then why not just completely get rid of the orchestra? I mean, with technology today you really don't need them according to your view on the matter. (Of course I prefer to have an orchestra over a synthisizer) While I don't believe people should be paid for work not done, I believe there are instances where a matter of safety is involved. It's in the best interest of everyone.
Updated On: 11/10/07 at 09:42 PM

[NYC2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 10:16pm

Stagehands do take vacations and if they don't they get vacation checks! I know 11 stagehands personally and 2 are college educated and one left to work for local one. As all of us have said, fair pay, for fair work. I do not begrudge anyone making this kind of money for actually working!! These are my friends and I know what goes on, they LOVE their jobs!! THis is a great gig and they are not the only people that work those hours and they do it because they get paid very well. They knew what the job entails, all their relatives have done the same job!!! As Paul Libin pointed out, for someone to be paid $500 to mop the stage when he is supposed to be at work anyway, is unreal!!! That practice has been going on for years! Well, there we go, they can mop floors, we found jobs for them.

[don logan]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 11:19pm

God forbid the stagehands make a good living. How evil.

[bardolator]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 11:31pm

I was under the impression that the stagehands did not request new contract terms; the League wanted them. If that's the case, while it may be true that some of the details of the old contract seem like overkill, it IS the contract under which they were working, so it seems logical to me that Local One has asked for concessions that are of "equal value" to the losses the League wants them to sustain. The League has basically said "You won't sign the contract? Fine--we're moving ahead as if you had." They put the ball in Local One's court.

If I'm mistaken about this, by all means, set me straight (I have done quite a bit of reading on the subject, though I'm not in the biz).

As for the tone of the threads on this issue--some posters are less mature than my tenth graders. Time after I time I click on a new thread, thinking I'll read a rational discussion that will help me follow the ins and outs of this whole thing--and time after time, within just a few posts, the same posters start hacking at each other. We should make a single thread and let you guys just have it out once and for all, and leave the other threads for those of us looking for information.

Updated On: 11/10/07 at 11:31 PM

[whatever2]

Posted: 11/10/07 at 11:34pm

> the problem is Local One has too many NY Politician's in their pockets!!

what on earth do new york politicians have to do with this??? except where the state is the *employer*, disputes involving organized labor are governed exclusively by FEDERAL law.