Sweeney mistake?

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:05am

I don't know if this has been posted, but I didn't want to search through threads and threads of Sweeney postings. I finally saw it today - LOVED IT - loved everything about it. But -- the line Toby has when he's picking through the pies and pulls out the hair "black as a rook - it isn't Mrs. Lovett's" (paraphrased) -- how does he know it's not hers with her hair being so BLACK in this production? Shouldn't they have changed that line?

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:45am

Oh, and while I'm at it, I might as well post my thoughts on the white coffin here too - which I didn't see mentioned elsewhere....

People are saying that it's too heavy-handed as the barber's chair - but I saw it as so much more than that. The white coffin represented the death of Sweeney's previous life, his "innocence" if you will. Remember, the coffin doesn't come on until the second act - after he's had his break with reality in epiphany. At this point he's sort of sealing his own fate, and the coffin which is cradled at appropriate times, represents his connection with the past. At some point (and I can't remember now when it was, I know it was VERY close to the end of the show - possibly even right before he himself gets killed) he lays the white coffin in the black one as though he's laying to rest his past.

It's also VERY appropriate that the judge gets killed while sitting on that coffin - the very thing he stole from Sweeney - it's the ultimate poetic justice.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:54am

I was thinking about that line recently.

It seems too obvious to be that they just overlooked it.

Maybe it has to do with that Patti is not in fact "Mrs.Lovett" but an inmate playing out the part.

I love the white coffin. The meanings are very layered.

[Caroline-Q-or-TBoo]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:55am

of all of the whole human race, Mrs. Lovett, there are two kinds of men- only two!

[aspiringactress]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:57am

The line SORT OF (ish) works if you take it as two seperate thoughts. That's not Mrs. Lovett's hair (as recognized by some aspect of it OTHER than color) ::complete thought::. It's an old black cow ::complete thought::. But it was clearly just overlooked.

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:03am

I was thinking the over-looked part, myself...

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:06am

If they overlooked it, I am incredibly disapointed.

It is a VERY obvious line.

[BroadwayChica]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:13am

The line was NOT overlooked, people. Make of it what you will, its inclusion in this production is very much intentional.

[jasonf]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:14am

Can someone explain it then? It's the only thing that's sticking out as a flaw of ANY kind for me right now. I would never have picked up on it if I wasn't so familiar with the show to begin with - but I'd love to know why it was left in...?

[timote316]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:16am

Doyle has everything covered in the production. I'm sure it wasn't an oversight.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:17am

I stand by my original reasoning.

It may not be right, but I like it.

Chica, I was thinking of you as I posted.

Updated On: 4/30/06 at 01:17 AM

[C is for Company]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:21am

Smartpenguin, it seems that your reasoning makes complete sense that the physical image we see of the people onstage 'acting' out the part of the real characters may not match up with how they really were. The Lovett onstage is not necessarily the one that Toby had actually come in contact with onstage, idk.
If it was from his mind then and thats how they really looked than that is careless on their part, but I somehow doubt that.

[Jenny1284]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:26am

I also like smartpenguin's idea. I know someone who saw the show in England, and she thought it was strange that the Johanna they saw was brunette when there are so many references to her blonde hair. The reference to Mrs. Lovett's hair isn't quite as obvious, but it does seem more likely that these two very similar discrepencies are intentional.

[smartpenguin78]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 1:27am

I think there is a little of both, that he sees the real people around him, and puts them into the roles. So they do look like the real people, but are not them, and may have physical distinctions.

(ie. I think "Sweeney" was actually bald, so when Toby sees the "bald guy" he automatically puts him in the role. I also see this as why Toby has the autoritarian Doctor "play" Pirelli.)

- Very nice example with the brunette Johanna, I thought I had read about that as well. To me it really adds to the nature of the production.

Updated On: 4/30/06 at 01:27 AM

[Mythus]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 2:13am

It's sort of Man of La Mancha-y. Don Quixote probably didn't look like Cervantes, who in turn probably didn't look like Brian Stokes Mitchell, but it's just people acting out a story within a story. Discrepensies like that aren't that big of a deal.

And it sure makes you think, doesn't it?

ETA: I could always ask my friend to ask Mano if it's intentional...they're practically married (and by that I mean they're friends). Updated On: 4/30/06 at 02:13 AM

[StephanietheStar]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 11:17am

I saw the production in London and Johanna definitely had blonde hair...so maybe that was an u/s.


umm...other than that, I think I've decided I'm too dumb to figure out a lot of Sondhiem's stuff, I'll just enjoy my ignorance :)

[WickedGeek28]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 11:27am

It's like a play inside a play. Yea, you're right the coffin carries so much symbolism.

[Sleeper2]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 12:19pm

I asked. It was overlooked.

[Jenny1284]

Posted: 4/30/06 at 8:45pm

It doesn't matter much now, but here's a photo of the brunette Johanna from the Watermill Theatre (just so you know I'm not crazy ):

Didn't it transfer to the West End after this? So maybe there was a different Johanna?
I found the picture (and other good photos from the show) here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/somerset/stage/2004/04/sweeney_todd/index.shtml.