The musical is not a dying form, it's virtually extinct. As yet more rock pseudo-musicals flood the West End, David Benedict and Stephen Sondheim count the reasons why. -- Page 4

[Mattio98]

Posted: 8/13/04 at 4:07am

Examples?

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 8/13/04 at 2:31pm

MusicMan - I never said Titanic or Parade were classics. I merely offered them as examples of shows from the past that have yet to be performed when the author of the article says "there is little left from the past to do", he is non-specifically referring to not only classics to be revived, but also ignoring shows that have yet to have a West End production at all. Regardless your opinion of them, they have gone on to critically acclaimed productions and have proven to have a life beyond Broadway.

"But somewhere along the line, its creators succumbed to the self-conscious, postmodern cliche that plagues so much of twentieth century art: only ambivalence, cynicism, despair, irony, emotional aridity, textual/musical difficulty, inaccessibility, grotesqueries, etc. have meaning or validity, thus robbing the musical of its joy, poetry, pathos, romance, humor and VARIETY."

Simply because you don't like a show, doesn't mean it has no joy, poetry, pathos, romance, humor and variety, almost all of which was in Caroline, or Change and Parade to name a couple. You want the art form to fit into a neat little box and stay there for eternity, but art evolves through social, political, scientific and technological change and musical theatre is an art form that will evolve as well.

"...the newer shows placed a greater value on the overintellectualized idea and the writers' own 'self-expression' at the expense of audience identification and enjoyment."

The same could be said of Sondheim, which would explain why nearly all of his shows were not commercially successful.

"Is it any wonder that audiences have blithely sought their pleasures in confections such as CRAZY FOR YOU, MAMMA MIA, THE PRODUCERS or the DISNEY shows, while the serious musical has, at least temporarily, reached a dead end?"

It hasn't. That is your opinion talking, not fact. The Producers, though I don't care for it, is a perfect example of entertainment and ideas. So is Hairspray, Aida, Rent, Wicked and The Frogs. They are simply not the entertainment and ideas you personally desire. But then, few musicals could ever live up to the lofty standards you set for them, which is why you will be continually disappointed.

It's minds like yours that rejected rock and roll as a form of music and remained firmly glued to Lawrence Welk as the world continued to progress around them.

Audiences choose the confections because as history has shown, audiences has always chosen the confections. Successful "serious musicals" (as you call them) have ALWAYS been an exception. This is not a new development.

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 8/14/04 at 1:29pm

bump

[MusicMan]

Posted: 8/15/04 at 3:08am

MisterMatt--
"I never said TITANIC or PARADE were classics..."
The article quoted in your post specifically mentioned "classics" and you responded with TITANIC and PARADE. Forgive me for making the assumption.

"... almost all of which was in CAROLINE OR CHANGE and PARADE..."
Yup. Those gags in CAROLINE OR CHANGE and PARADE were real knee-slappers. But, the point is, these shows were (are) flops. As far as those shows having "a... life beyond Broadway," well, of course they do!! Since the trickle-down of successful Broadway shows is virtually nil, theatre owners are desperate for product with a New York cachet, even if they're disasters like SEUSSICAL. In a healthier age, duds like PARADE and TITANIC would be consigned to the dustbin along with titles like BAKER STREET and MINNIE'S BOYS.

"...the same could be said of Sondheim."
Of course. But he at least had showmen like Hal Prince involved in his productions keeping an eye out for the audience.

"..perfect example...of entertainment and ideas...[are]HAIRSPRAY, AIDA...WICKED...
Not conceits, MisterMatt, IDEAS.

"...few musicals could ever live up to the lofty standards you set for them..."
And it's those few that established my standard for musicals. It's like Pushkin said: " One cannot make love to every woman in the world. But one must at least try."

"It's mind like yours that rejected rock and roll...and remained glued to Lawrence Welk..."
Well, if you knew anything about me, you'd realize how silly that statement is.

"Serious musicals have always been an exception."
Except the very history of Broadway's progress and growth is expressly due to the audience's support of those serious shows of quality. But quality is not defined by flawed dramaturgy and poor material like CAROLINE OR CHANGE. Not every musical that finds itself before an audience may be worthy of one, but very few musicals of quality escape the audience and fall beneath the radar.
Updated On: 8/15/04 at 03:08 AM

[Mattio98]

Posted: 8/15/04 at 3:20am

Just because you dislike certain shows doesn't make it bad material. It may just not be your taste.

[shira467]

Posted: 8/15/04 at 4:59am

Okay, past the drama, I'll state my opinion on the article...

I certainly felt it could have been better written and focused. I felt as if it was one big advertisement, in lights flashing "Sondheim is a God!" Bull.

You can say musicals are a dying form, so are plays and anything else live on stage. With movies, television and media, why should we bother paying for theater and supporting new artists when for 29.95 a month I can get 200 channels and HBO?

I agree that musicals should keep up with the times. Heck, classical musicals evolved from opera, and rock and pop musicals have evolved from classical musicals. It may not be progress, but it is process.

Personally, I like Wildhorn, I like Schwartz (even though I feel he is not the best quality, but he writes good stuff). I like Andrew Lloyd Webber, Boublil and Schoenberg, Rodgers and Hammerstein. You get the drift. But I'm not the average American. I like theater.

America's music focus has changed from musicals to Mandy Moore. It's just the way it goes. And hopefully it will go back to musicals.

Just today in the LATimes, there was an article on how etiquette is making a comeback. Emily Post etiquette was around 1922. 82 years later, it comes back. So too will musicals.

But that can only happen if people can afford musicals. Discounts, schmiscounts. 50% off is still $50. I understand it costs much to put a musical together, but still.

The article states that theater and musicals have become "elitist". Perhaps because the only people who can afford to go are the elite. Make it appealing and affordable to the general public, put out good quality shows in all parts of the United States, and I believe we will see theater make a comeback.

We just need patience. I will now step off my soapbox.