West Side Story 50 years old this year--first important modern musical?

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:00pm

If I look at my fave musicals chronologically the big turning point really seems to be WSS. While I love many shows pre 1957 (the Rodgers and Hammerstein's, Show Boat, On the Town, etc...) When I hear WSS or see a bit (i recently just found a video I had thought I lost with the cast of the original production performing Cool on Ed Sullivan in '58--and it's still breathtaking) I'm always still amazed this show came out 50 years ago. EVen more than the serious themes of the piece what impresses still is the choreography and staging by Jerome Robbins--how one scene flows into another, etc.

It's also interesting to me how nearly everyone important to the last 50 years of musical theatre has a connection to that original production--Stephen Sondheim of course, Hal Prince who surely wouldn't have done such wonders with Cabaret, etc (or perhaps even worked later with Sondheim) without his work on the show, Michael Bennett danced in the tour and London production and surely was influenced by elements, even Bob Fosse, while I've never heardhis thoughts on WSS, had his choreography brakthrough (Pajama Game) thanks to Jerome Robbins recognizing his talent and hiring him on (could there have been the cinematic flow and stylized feel of Sweet Charity 9 years later without WSS?)

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[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:06pm

It's interesting how other shows of the same era had *parts* of the things that made WSS a success, but WSS put them all together. You hear some of the stories about the genesis of the show, and it's a wonder it made to Broadway intact. But I agree, it's arguably the first to change the direction of modern musical theatre.

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:11pm

The first very important modern musical, though it opened some time before West Side, was Carousel. It introduced the extended scene. The music flowed nicely. The dance told the story. Most would say that about Oklahoma! but Oklahoma! is very dialouge heavy. Carousel is not. Perhaps on terms of staging, West Side Story was innovative, but if we're looking for innovative structure, look no further than Carousel. Plus West Side Story has pretty subpar lyrics. The material for the gangs and Anita is quite good, but Tonight, One Hand, One Heart and I Feel Pretty and to a degree, Somewhere, are dreadfully out of character. Don't get me wrong, I love Sondheim, but even he's admitted it.
Updated On: 4/7/07 at 10:11 PM

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:13pm

And what I mean by extended scene is something like The Bench Scene, which brought forth gems like Waiting for the Girls Upstairs, Someone in a Tree, God That's Good, Mrs. A (Yes, I know it's from The Rink, but still...) and so forth.

[Mattbrain]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:24pm

Definitely.

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:28pm

Even Bob Fosse, while I've never heardhis thoughts on WSS...

Does anyone know his thoughts on anything? I know he hated Sunday in the Park with George (Gotta disagree with him there) and the Tommy Tune show that opened around that time, but he was particularly gloomy then because of Big Deal's failure. I'm sure some of his opinions are quite interesting.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:29pm

I adore Carousel but I guess I meant more interms of all the elements being united--not just the written work (music and script) but everything. there's a reason, and it's not just Jeromme Robbins' anal estate--that every revival of WSS basically apes his original production--it's near impossible to do the show successfully without it (much as can be said about Sweet Charity, IMHO, or Pippin, or A Chorus Line or even in some ways Follies or Company). The direction and choreographya dn staging were integrated into the work as it was written.

I am a ballet nerd and LOVE Agnes DeMille and while if I had my way her choreographyw ould be kept in all productions , I thought Kenneth McMillian's work for the revival worked fine. of course she choreographed AND directed the next R&H-_Allegro but I know little about that show (need to learn more) and it wasn't a success the way WSS was, that made everyone in the Broadway industry really pay attention.

Others mention concept shows like Kazan's Love Life but again it didn't stand out the way WSS did. Sometimes I feel WSS is overated--I bet it had its share of dopey eyed fangirls that shows like Rent now get--but then I see something, liek that 1958 perforamnce of Cool and am blown away. I know Jerome Robbins considered his ultimate staging success Fiddler but I think I'd go back to WSS. (I even saw a mediocre revival of WSS in 1999 in London that was fairly undistinguished but really, and I'm beign serious here, the staging and choreography, which were credited to Robbins as a recreation, made the show still a thrill to watch)

Sean says what I mean--other shows had elements, but none brought it together quite the same

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:33pm

I don't think Robbins' estate is as anal as Michael Bennett's, although it could be. He did idolize him. Perhaps John Breglio idolizes Robbins' lawyer. Though almost every production of a Robbins shows has the same choreography, the direction is often different. In some cases that's good (Mendes' Gypsy) and in some cases it isn't (Leveaux's Fiddler).

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:36pm

Was it FOsse or Bennett who stood at the back of the theatre during SUNDAY workshops and apparantly offered "invaluable" critiques that they incorporated? I'm thinking Bennett now (the anecdote is one Sondheim and crew tell on the great commentary for the DVD of SUNDAY) I think by the mid 80s Fosse was getting pretty bitter about the shows that were doing better, critically or audience wise, than his. Still it's interesting that I've read so little on what he thougth of other shows--maybe he never cared ot make his views public.

You bring up the infamous Bench Scene. See with WSS I think they took this in a way even further--in the original staging you have the amazing "fade in" to the Dance at the Gym, all that stuff, then the fade to Tony seeing Maria where evrtythign fades, then the fade to the street where Tony is singing Maria, etc--it's almost all one scene in how it's orchestrated. With Carousel the dance was still kinda choppy--it didn't just spring outa the normal acting (I believe Agnes again used doubles from her Ballet Russes for the actual beach ballet--liek she did for the dream ballet in Oklahoma but I'm not sure)

And as for your ocmments on the lyrics being in places Dreadful--i think they could only be called dreaful when compared to other Sondheim lyrics. SOndheim has said I Feel Pretty is out of character and expressed embarassment about Tonight but never said it or the others are out of character--he seven said in a Sondheim Review that while he found the lyrics embarassing they could be argued as to be the typical naive feeling sa young TOny and Maria have (with Pretty the problem he had of course was they were too clever for her--but I think even here he's being too hard on himself--even his mentor Hammerstein loved to throw in sometime inapropriate wordplay--I Enjoy Being a Girl from next year's Flower Drum SOng being an obvious example)

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:39pm

"I don't think Robbins' estate is as anal as Michael Bennett's, although it could be. He did idolize him. Perhaps John Breglio idolizes Robbins' lawyer. Though almost every production of a Robbins shows has the same choreography, the direction is often different. In some cases that's good (Mendes' Gypsy) and in some cases it isn't (Leveaux's Fiddler).
"

Yeah I have wondered about this actually. I know from reading the rental stuff when our school did WSS they do expect you to reproduce the choreography (which is with many amateur groups a hopeless request) but you're right, WSS is the only one I can think of where the overall direction and sets/costumes are nearly always kept--otherwise they only seem to have the rights to the choreography which is a bit odd when often it's such an integrated part of the direction.

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[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:41pm

Bennett gave advice to Lapine and Sondheim as a favor to Sondheim (who he remained friends with after the team of Prince and Bennett parted ways) and the Shuberts. Michael Bennett was a brilliant director, but many of the ideas he gave to them were pedistrian and stupid. One was "Have Dot come on with a suitcase when she is leaving for America so the audience knows she is leaving." Perhaps he missed the first scene, because we already get the idea she wants to move on to America when she and George discuss the dress she is wearing.

And okay, dreadful is too harsh. I wasn't saying they were bad though. In any typical "June and Moon" romantic musical they'd work nicely. But (to paraphrase someone Mr. Sondheim once said) would Tony ever say "Today the world was just an address. A place for me to live in." Maybe if he were a baron of some European country, but not as a street kid.


And may I add: Lapine never used Bennett's ideas. Bennett did like Sunday though. Move On was played by Sondheim at his funeral.
Updated On: 4/7/07 at 10:41 PM

[dramaqueen2]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:42pm

this is easily my favorite musical of all time.
it all started when i was in kindergarten and was in dance class [i was a stage kid from day one, right?] and we were doing a tap dance to the jet song and i asked my instructor what WSS was about and she said.. "it's about two groups of friends who don't like eachother very much," good explanation for a 5 year old, right? hahaha.
anyway, went home and rented the movie and have been in love ever since.
this show is so breathtaking.. it still ceases to amazing. the dancing and staging is impeccable and i will argue that the score is one of the most beautiful scores ever created for musical theatre.

i think it's about time for a broadway revival, no?

love to west side story! <3

*goes off to watch the movie*

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:44pm

It is indeed time for a revival. I wouldn't mind a recreation of the original either. The difference between this and Chorus Line is that we haven't seen West Side onstage in some time. Last time we saw Chorus Line was 17 years ago. However, if Jerry Mitchell wants to do it, I say let him.

[popular_elphie]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:48pm

Carousel and WSS are two beautiful, albeit different musicals. I prefer the latter more, and would absolutely love to see a revival of it. With what technology we have now, it could be absolutely breathtaking (set and lighting wise, at very least).

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 10:57pm

I wasn't comparing them though. They are quite different.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 11:06pm

Jerry Mitchell doing WSS? ugh...

Yeah why not a 50th anniversary show of some sort? I know there was in the late 90s the N American tour which recreated the original but Broadway hasn't seen it since 81 I believe. I admit one change I wouldn't midn woul dbe incorporating the movie version of America although I read somewhere that this isn't done ons tage because the male dancers are too tired ot have another number--which sounds a justifiable excuse.

It always amazes me that as incredible as this score is, Bernstein wrote some of it for Candide--Office Krupke was I know for sure (i believe a Candide song was intended for WSS as well... )

I was sure on the Sunday DVD they said Bennett was very helpful--though I do remember reading that thing about the suitcase which, yeah, is an awful idea and as brilliant as I find him also one I could see Bennett suggesting

[jv92]

Posted: 4/7/07 at 11:09pm

He was helpful in getting the show on. He told the Shuberts to do it. But his directorial ideas weren't particularly useful.

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 1:04am

WSS needs to be revived! With Elena Shaddow as Maria.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 1:10am

Great thread! It's no huge surprise that in a playbill poll last year (or 2 years ago?) that West Side Story was voted the most influential show of all-time.

And I admit it...if there is such a thing, I am a West Side Story fangirl. It's funny you mention like Rent...when I saw Chita Rivera: the dancer's life, the ladies next to me loved me...see when I knew she was about to start singing A Boy Like That I got so excited and my mouth hung open in awe and I kind of bounced in my seat...anyway, at intermission the ladies told me they're used to people reacting to Rent that way, it's so refreshing to see someone react like that to Chita (not to say I'm not a huge Rent fan, but that's another story...)

West Side Story/Candide score connections: Music and lyrics for One Hand One Heart were originally written for Candide, music for Gee Officer Krupke was originally written for Candide and Oh Happy We was originally written for a cut scene in WSS involving Maria and Tony and a tea party or something.

There was a planned 50th Anniv West Side Story revival that Mitchell was going to direct (he was Robbins' assistant for Jerome Robbins Broadway, so was a good choice to recreate the choreography), but creative differences put it on hold. What I wouldn't give to see this show back on Broadway...

Because I can't resist expressing my WSS love...

I'm not sure it's possible or even really worth it to debate what the *first* important modern musical is...but in its vibrant, varied, AMAZING score, the use of dance as a storytelling device, and the dark material, WSS was certainly one of the most important.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 1:26am

Hahah that's very cute how excited you got--though I can relate.

The one Hand lyrics were in Candide? But wasn't it SOndheim who came up with making the song "da da da daaaaa, daaaaa daaaa" instead of the original "daaaa daaaaaaa, daaaaa daaaa" (if that made anysense?) I know Bernstein did help wtih the lyrics...

I wonder what the creative diffs were? I wouldn't object at all to Jerry restaging the original and even making some minor changes--I just can't picture him doing it all

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 7:30am

>> of course she choreographed AND directed the next R&H-_Allegro but I know little about that show

ALLEGRO is a real curiosity piece, R&H's attempt to be "experimental" (Well, it was the 50s, so I guess they can be forgiven for it). It had the Greek chorus. It had Mielzeiner's unit setting with projections (which Jo hated; he wanted a more detailed production, but they couldnt get the script to him on time to figure out the basic logistics). The stories about DeMille are pretty much the stuff of legend: she had major differences with R&H about the staging and tried desperately to influence the songs to make them more "arty". On more than a few occasions, she threatened to quit. On a few more, they threatened to fire her. The final result was something no one was happy with, and it's my theory they went ahead with it only because there was no other "new" R&H show playing that season.

Little side note: a friend of mine came across the OCR in a Goodwill in Mebane, NC -- autographed by Rodgers to a member of the chorus. The autograph's been authenticated. He paid a buck for it. It's probably worth about two to three grand.

[Unknown User]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 8:23am

You mean 40s of course but yeah--that's pretty much my view of it.

I have the OBCR of course but apparantly it's very different from what was heard in theatres so isn't of much help-- I have the coffee table book of Mielzener's sets which have a few different attempts at Allegro sets--interesting of course but...

As a teen I did read the libretto but remember next to nothing about it now except that it was by far the boringest read in the book it was in (which was a collection of Rodgers and Hammerstein plays I believe up to Flower Drum Song). But it does seem to have been accepted almost blindly by many musical theatre fans and historians alike as this great failed brilliant piece of work (the fact that Sondheim was a gopher for it probably helps add to the mystique). While I have my doubts that it was--the basic story itself is just too uninteresting IMHO and too broad--I do think the score deserves a good, detailed recording.

E

[baddadnpa]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 10:39am

I believe Showboat is the granddaddy and true ancestor of modern musical theatre.

[SeanMartin]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 12:43pm

>> You mean 40s of course

Damn keyboard moving when I'm trying to type. That's it, yeah.

:)

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/8/07 at 12:57pm

Resurrecting an old West Side Story thread.
BLT III - clip from 1980 WEST SIDE STORY Revival