What is the musician union's feeling on Sweeney Todd?

[shermanslave]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 3:41pm

My friend and I were just wondering about this. I thought that musicals had to have a certain number of musicians to honor the Broadway contract. Since all the music is being played by the actors, this musical has no union musicians in it? Or do you think the cast had to join that union to do it? Are they getting paid extra since they are the orchestra? What do you think?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 3:49pm

The cast had to join the music union.

[shermanslave]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 3:52pm

thank you. that makes sense. I just had not heard if that was the case or not.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:05pm

But what's the deal with crediting John Miller as "music coordinator" when there's already a credit for casting?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:08pm

Because he still has to coordinate music...

[Rathnait62]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:14pm

Because John Miller has to get a check for every show on Broadway. It's been that way since the beginning of time.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:17pm

T.O. (Time out)! Doesn't a music coordinator hire the musicians?

[ljay889]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:17pm

Donna Lynne is the conductor in disguise.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 5:24pm

That does not answer my question.

[jasobres]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 9:06pm

I still would like to know what they mean by "musical coordinator."

[ElphabaRose]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 9:56pm

i don't know for sure, but maybe music coordinator means that he was the one that ran music rehearsals and helped teach the actors their parts. like a musical director, but not quite the same since the actors are the same people as the musicians.

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/4/05 at 10:04pm

The musicians union is not complaining because the musician quota or the Eugene O'Neil Theatre is not being met by the number of actor/musicians employed for SWEENEY, which means several musicians are receiving weekly paychecks without having to show up to play.

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 12:15am

yes the actors joined 802 so they are technically 'union sanctioned musicians'.

John Miller (i believe) held many responsibilities regarding this production, one of which being a main liason between the company and 802. They were all brand new members (except i think for one cast member) and there were many times Mr. Miller was called in to clarify issues and sort out unexpected questions with a production so new in concept.

I am not aware of his other responsibilities but i do know that all the music was orchestrated and taught to the actors by sarah travis and david loud. Mr. Miller was not part of the every day rehearsal process in any way.

As far as the number of musician's per theatre required, i believe the miniumum number at the Eugene ONeill is 8 (usually in the pit).

Because the cast contains 10 musicians, 802 is actually 2 musicians over their minimum in that theatre. If you include the 4 covers who also joined the union, 802 got 13 new members in their union as a result of this production (and i would suspect that most of those actors will choose to remain in 802 after the show).

Regarding michael bennet's remark about random musicians receiving paychecks....i admit that i really don't understand what he's saying. Perhaps i'm confused, but if what is implied is that they are paying more outside musicians than the ones in the company, he is mistaken.

Again, the SWEENEY TODD company employs more than the minimum number of 802 musicians for that particular theatre, so really- the musician's union did quite well in their representation in this production. I believe both AEA and 802 ended up quite pleased with the whole outcome once it was sorted out.

Anyway-
that's what i've heard through my connections there. hope that clarifies things a bit.

regards-
tinydancer

[Michael Bennett]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 12:28am

If they are over their musician union quota at the Eugene O'Neil Theatre, then no, they wouldn't be paying outside musicians who don't have to show up. Now, a quota of 8 musicians seems low to me for a theatre as big as the Eugene O'Neil, but I'll trust you on that one

[Chrysanthemum62001]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 12:39am

I'm afraid there are certain aspects of this business I may never understand! Why does there have to be a minimum number of musicians? And why would the union be unhappy with the arrangement?

Which brings me to another question. Back during the 98 revival of Cabaret, the orchestra members was made up of cast members. But at the end, the curtain comes up and the instrumentalist have "dissapeared". Because of this, they didn't get to bow at the curtian call. Why didn't they get to bow. How was that fair?

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 12:42am

yes- a minimum of 8 seemed very low to me too as i am a huge proponant of keeping the pits as full and as lush as possible. i might be mistaken- but my source is pretty close to the nerve center over there at ST and they were pretty clear it was 8.

ah well.

long ago are the days of 25 peices in the pit 'just because', eh? And not for nothing but i thought the recent goings on at RADIO CITY this past month were totally attrocious on the parts of the producers. I was surprised there wasn't more outcry on the boards and in the city.

Good for Bloomberg for getting both sides together again to sort it out. But, wow. I found the whole thing very upsetting as far as 'precedent setting' goes.

tinydancer

[fiatlux]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 1:39am

As a Brit (and as someone who has appeared in actor/musician productions) I have to say that I'm flabbergasted by this restrictive practice. It's certainly not something I've ever come across in the UK but it's an interesting idea to get paid twice to do your job....it might catch on.

[Chrysanthemum62001]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 1:43am

That's another thing! I find it so strange that some of the performers are getting paid twice. I adore Michael to no end, but come on. Does he really need another pay check for playing his guitar. He's got two interludes. They are beautiful. But does it really require a seperate pay check?

Updated On: 12/5/05 at 01:43 AM

[neocomposer]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 5:04am

Ah...thanks for asking that! I have been wondering the same thing, but I'm not smart enough to ask it here...duh.

[jonartdesigns]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 9:20am

my theory is that the 4 standbys are counted into the number of musicians, which probobly makes up the total minimum quota

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 9:35am

I know it's been posted here before but one more time for those who missed it.

these actors in ST are NOT receiving TWO separate salaries/paychecks. They never have and they never will. I believe Margo Channing posted this over a month ago but, then again- ya read what you wanna read, i suppose.

fiatlux-
No worries that you all got a raw deal in the UK with the 'one paycheck', because it's not true. I'm actualy suprised you believed this rumor as an actor yourself. Do you really think actors (who believe it or not are usually the lowest on the salary totem pole) could warrant such a sweet deal?

They are being paid as musicians, but working under AEA 'rules' for the most part.

AEA has a certain minimum
802 has a certain minimum
The agreement was to negotiate individually from whichever of those minimums was higher.

I believe in the end the 802 minimum was higher (but not significantly) for most of the company and since quite a few of the cast members are making their bway debuts, i would imagine they really aren't getting paid any more than that minimum itself.

That's it.

one paycheck.
one salary.
'one day more.......'

tinydancer

[Gothampc]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 9:42am

So the actors in ST have to pay another set of dues to a union.

I bet Patti LuPone's dues are more than some people's annual income: AEA, AFTRA, SAG, Cabaret union, Musician's union.

But Patti should have it in her contract that the producers pay her Musician Union dues.

Updated On: 12/5/05 at 09:42 AM

[fiatlux]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 10:00am

"I'm actualy suprised you believed this rumor as an actor yourself. Do you really think actors (who believe it or not are usually the lowest on the salary totem pole) could warrant such a sweet deal? "

Ha! Thanks for that - however paranoia and the suspicion that someone is always getting paid more than you, always makes these stories credible - but daft as you say.

[TinyDancer]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 11:41am

While i do not know this for a fact, i strongly suspect that the producers of SWEENEY TODD not only pay the actors' 802 weekly(?) dues, but most likely paid for their 'joining fee' (or whatever you call it) to join the union in the first place. Or perhaps the company gets paid whatever percentage on top (as is sometimes done for agents' 10% commissions) to supplement this cost.

I can certainly ask my friend to confirm when i speak to them next.

I would guess that the actors in the prouction continue to pay their own AEA dues as is protocol on an AEA contract.

Again, i don't know this for a fact- but this particular producing team (frankel, viertel, etc) while known around town as financially savvy are also well appreciated for their fairness and generosity to their company's staff without going over budget.

I've worked with them myself and have found them to be consistently fair and respectful of all parties in a production (which is not often said about producers these days) and the above seems to me, to be the most ethical solution to the dues situation.

and Fiatlux, so happy to have relieved your worry. I can completely understand your concern over that particular rumor, I was just amused that you thought things were so different over 'here' than 'over there'...well, when it came to the actors anyway- and the 'business' side of show business, right?

tinydancer

[Jon]

Posted: 12/5/05 at 11:49am

The person responsible for hiring the pit musiciains is called the Music Contractor, and for as long as I can remember, it's been a guy named Seymour Red Press for nearly every show on Broadway.