Why I did'nt buy Bernadette!- Page 2

[Deannaizme]

Posted: 6/10/03 at 12:45pm

I finally watched my tape of the Tonys last night. I'd been eagerly waiting for Bernadette's performance. I thought she was great. Her hoarseness enhanced the emotion of Rose's Turn. I do have to say that I haven't seen the show at all, so I'm not that familiar with the story. But I found her performance to be wonderful. I thought it fit in perfectly with the emotions that she described in her set up of the number.

Deanna

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/10/03 at 4:14pm

Bernadette was pushing her voice to reach her lower register. As a result she went hoarse and was even off pitch a few times. When the music reached Bernadette's "comfort zone", she was fine, but her "little girl's voice" wasn't appropriate for the character.

It was a disappointing performance.

[Albin]

Posted: 6/10/03 at 8:29pm

Do you really spend $100 to go see a show and worry about "modified vowel tones" and "weakly finessed phrasing" instead of getting caught up in the power and emotion of the acting? How sad...

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/10/03 at 8:48pm

I saw Ethel Merman several times when she played DOLLY on Broadway. At first I thought that my favorite show was withering before my eyes because Ethel merely walked through "I Put My Hand In", then she stepped onto the runway and sang a song that was added for her: "World Take Me Back" and the audience was hers for the rest of the evening. She was a unique talent that had to be seen to be fully appreciated. The same is true with Mary Martin.

Posted: 6/11/03 at 8:10am

I re-watched her performance just to make sure I was'nt crazy...and I noticed one other thing..

She cracks on the line "Everything's coming up Rose".

Middle D, people and she cracks on it..

Oh, maybe she was "emoting"..caught up in her "performance"..

..Cracks wide open.

So add that to the list..

..and yes, those things DO matter..if you don't make them matter, you "lower the bar" and things get even worse than they are now..

I heard Bebe Neuwirth once sing an "All that Jazz" at a benefit that was a disgrace from start to finish and sounded like a death rattle.

These two men next to me whispered to each other as she croaked out the ending..

"Isn't she wonderful!!!!!"

My date turned to me upon hearing that comment and said:

"No wonder Broadway sucks!"...

Posted: 6/11/03 at 10:21am

I know exactly the part that you are talking about where you say she "cracks" and she didn't crack. She added her own flair to the note, she didn't crack. Listen closer. She was caught up in the emotions...THAT IS WHAT MATTERS. I thought it was wonderful. And now your insulting Bebe too. There are very few roles Bebe can play because of her voice, which I think is very unique and for that reason wonderful. What's wrong with you? Just out of pure curiousity who do you think is good? Next your gonna tell us that Chita is no good, or wait maybe Gwen Verdon. We got the point, you didn't care for Bernadette. Most people thought it was the best performance on the Tonys in a long time. Just out of curiousity what did you think of Marissa? Updated On: 6/11/03 at 10:21 AM

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 10:30am

Exactly director1. What do you mean she cracked? I heard no crack when I watched the video. Her "Everythings Coming Up Rose" was the most electrifying part of the number. She was acting...something we can obviously see that you don't find important. On the verge of tears and you expect her to sing every note perfectly. I keep hearing all of you saying she didn't hold the last note...she didn't hold it cause she was crying. You try and sing through all those emotions. Steven Sondheim originally didn't have the end of the song in the show. He wanted Ethel Merman to scream her last lines "for me" to the sound of high pitch screeching violins. Of course Miss Ethel wouldn't have it, she wanted one last note to wow 'em with (which is not the point of the song.) Sondheim much to his dismay added the last sung "For Me," upon Hammerstein's advice, and luckily Jerome found a way to make the number just as hauntingin the end by adding her bows after the audience was finished clapping. And yes what about Marissa? I would love to know what you thought of her? Talk about horrible. Flat, flat, flat the whole song.
And I'm sorry but DollyPop. How are you going to talk about someones voice when your favorite performer is Carol Channing? Updated On: 6/11/03 at 10:30 AM

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 1:59pm

That's why Bernadette is of a rare breed. She can sing AND act, and do it all at once. During Gypsy, you can see the tears streaming down her face during "Eveything's Coming Up Roses" and "Rose's Turn" (in which she quickly changes to anger). When she started yelling out, "Someone tell me, when is it my turn. Don't I get a dream for myself!?" I was like, WOW! And she was really shaking her stuff when she said, "This time boys I'm taking the bows and..."

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:03pm

First let me say I attend everything from Opera to Broadway to Pop to Rock concerts on a regular basis..

I attended a performance where Placido Domingo cracked on a high B...

I know a crack when I hear one...

Again, what’s a crack in ANY OTHER KIND OF MUSIC is not considered one on Broadway, I guess…

or at least not considered by a few..

Somehow, a crack becomes a “flourish” on Broadway…

Marissa, as I stated before, was dancing like a wild woman. It tends to hurt your breathing. Throwing off your support... which hurts your pitch.

Bernadette, besides a few foot stamps (or stomps), was not dancing..

But maybe foot stomps are now considered dancing on Broadway?

Who knows...?

I keep forgetting the rules change at whim and for whom is dancing or cracking…

What performances did I like …that I have seen on Broadway..

My first Broadway show was the OBC Of “Annie” when I was a little bit of a thing..

Next, “Sophisticated Ladies” with Hines…and OBC…

I was quite the sophisticated 10 years old..

Years later..

Tommy Tune and Charles “Honi” Coles, stopping the show cold with their number and doing an encore of it in “My one and only”.

Peters and Patinkin in the OBC of” Sunday in the Park with George”

Years later..more recent

Everyone in the Original cast of RENT…..two days after opening night..breathtaking.

Heather Headley in AIDA.. a great performance overall but a vocal performance to rival anything Whitney Houston has ever done..

Elaine Stritch “At Liberty” ..one of the greatest nights I have ever spent in a theatre!

Patti Lupone at the one night only revival Of "Anything Goes" where she encored “Blow, Gabriel, Blow”..Fantastic…

There are others..

…Does this help…

[magruder]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:18pm

Guys, don't let this get ugly. No need to bait the others here about the relative abilities of Carol Channing or Marissa Jaret Winokur.

That said, a couple of things regarding Bernadette Peters. People seem surprised when she scoops and dredges into her lower register, or by that emotional choke or crack in her voice when she's belting. I've found this to be her sound for at least the last 20 years, if not more. She sounds the same way in Sunday in the Park, Song and Dance, Goodbye Girl, the Anyone Can Whistle concert and Into the Woods, whenever she is delivering an "emotional" number. Perhaps it's the aging of her voice, or a stylistic tic, but it doesn't mean she's not singing properly, or is incapable of meeting the score's demands. In Annie Get Your Gun, a generally sunnier score, I didn't notice it as much, but I sorta blocked that whole show out of my mind.

I went back and watched the "Rose's Turn" performance again, and apart from what I described above, I didn't notice any cracking from her. And I was captivated all over again by her performance. It's some of the most layered, emotional and smart singing and acting I've ever seen from her.

[ShineOn]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:19pm

Whoa there! You just spent a whole thread bitching out Miss Peters, yet you praise Elaine Stritch who can't hold a note to save her life? PLEASE tell me you've heard her rendition of "Ladies Who Lunch?"

*holds her ears* "RIIIIIIIIIIISE... RIIIIIIIISE."

Now, if SHE'S not an example of how acting is the KEY factor in a musical theatre performance, NOT your voice (though its always wonderful to hear a beautiful voice to accompany the phenomenal acting)... Double standards anyone?

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:29pm

Guys, don't let this get ugly. No need to bait the others here about the relative abilities of Carol Channing or Marissa Jaret Winokur

Voiceanth:...But that seems to be the point..for one of the posters, at the least

I mean they won't be happy till we all shout:

Bernadette is god!..A Christ-like figure who is:

T H E B E S T M A M A R O S E E V E R ...

What Carol Channing has to do with it is beyond me...

I'm still scratching my head how someone on this board feels that someone who likes one person's singing should be DISQUALIFIED from knowing anything about anyone elses abilities..

Marissa, they pick on her because she WON the award...'nuf said....

I think everyone is allowed their opinion and allowed to debate ....

This is not the "Bernadette Peters fan page" so differences of opinion might happen...should happen...and should be allowed....

[Hank]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:31pm

Bernadette has a terrific voice, but a lousy performance in Gypsy. Marissa has a lousy voice, but a terrific performance in Hairspray. Looks like you just can't top last years' winner, Sutton Foster, the whole package.

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 2:33pm

Yes it is sad that voiceanth's "rules" apply to some and not to others. Whatever you say Voiceanth, if you believe that it was her "cracking" you can believe that. And even if it was "cracking", it was done on purpose. You continue to miss the point that the emotions got in the way of giving a technically flawless performance, but the fact that it wasn't technically flawless is what made it great, IMO. If the emotions can't get in the way of Bernadette's voice, than Marissa J. Winokur jumping around shouldn't affect her. Believe me I've seen several people work a stage with moves twenty times harder than Marissa's and still sing better than Marissa and on pitch, ie Gwen Verdon in Damn Yankees and Sweet Charity, Chita Rivera in West Side Story and Pippin...want to see a woman DANCE and sing at the same time get the DVD and watch her tear up "Spread A Little Sunshine"...I can go on. Musical theater includes dance and if you can't dance and sing at the same time then you shouldn't be in musical theater. There are tons of people who give wonderful performances that aren't technically flawless, but their acting more than makes up for it, Elaine Stritch is one of those people as is Carol Channing and Bea Arthur. But I'm not comparing Bernadette to any of them, because she can sing. And I don't even know why I'm defending her voice so much, because even if you say that she wasn't technically flawless in my mind she acted and SANG it PERFECTLY.

Also, I have hated Marissa from the moment the first note came out of her mouth when I saw her at the Neil Simon back in August. Her win has nothing to do with Bernadette's performance.

And I don't want ANYONE to say that she is the BEST MAMA ROSE EVER...cause she's not. Angela Lansbury was FAR superior. The difference is Bernadette made the role her own and I applaude her for that. I really don't care if you like Bernadette as Mama Rose. I have a hard time with you're continual bashing of her talent. Obviously she is talented and obviously she can sing. She's not always perfect (hated her in Annie Get Your Gun) but for me your analysis of her voice has nothing to do with this performance. Rose's Turn is one of the greatest monologues, let alone the greatest songs. Updated On: 6/11/03 at 02:33 PM

[musicaltheatreman]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:12pm

voiceanth you oviusly know evrything about singing but what about acting??? you have to realize that when you are acting in a musical you have to sing the song to show the emotion of the charecter. alot of actors hold back notes or cut them off short for a dramtic effect which i think works!!! for example i saw a production of my fair lady starring tony award nommiee marla shaffel. when she sang i could have danced all night(which is full of high notes) she cut some of them out to show eliza's excitement. this was a excellent choice and work well for the song. the reviewer even praised her performence and talk about how she cut notes for a dramtic effect. i am sure you have seen alot of production so i am sure you have seen actor do this.

you said that marrsia was danceing like crazy. hmm well she was nto danceing when she 1st started singing the song!!! and she was off key please explain that!!! and you said BP was not danceing well the chareter rose does not dance and has never danced!! and if you have seen other production of gypsy the actress that plays rose always does movement the way BP was dong on the tony's.

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:19pm

LOL This is going back a few posts, but I loved Elaine Stritch at Liberty. I was moved to tears in a good way; and I simply loved her Ethel Merman story. Now there was someone who deservidly won the Tony last year! And she can't sing...but there is just something about her that is captivating. Perhaps it is her honesty about herself. I saw Bea Arthur last year as well, and enjoyed her show; but it din't compare to Elaine's.

[magruder]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:24pm

Well, while Stritch never had an incredible instrument, she's really very very good on the recordings of her 50s and 60s musicals like the 1952 revival of Pal Joey, Goldilocks and Sail Away. Anyone who only knows the modern day Strich may be surprised by the quality of her vocals in her younger days.

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:25pm

Bernadette's version of Rose's Turn was actually more dancy than most productions.

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:38pm

Bernadette's version of Rose's Turn was actually more dancy than most productions

Voiceanth: Of course it was! How could it not be! I bet it was the most "dancy" thing anyone has seen since Nureyev lept across a stage.

My god, this was some performance.

Did I miss anything else?

Did bats fly out of her ass or something?

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:40pm

I was refering to musicaltheaterman's comment, not anything you said. That doesn't make her version any better than anyone elses. I was just pointing something out. You certainly are a bitter one.

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:47pm

LOL! bestofbroadway, god love ya, I'm joking..I'm not taking this "conversation" literally...

It's something to do while things are slow at work (LOL)..I stand by what I'm saying...

...but bitter..

over Rose's Turn?...over Bernie...?

...come on...

LOL!

If anything, this has been enjoyable!...otherwise, I'm staring at yahoo for hours...!

[bestofbroadway]

Posted: 6/11/03 at 3:55pm

Oh okay...same here.
It's when you started to talk about bat's flying out of her ass that I thought you were taking this whole Bernadette thing really hard.

Posted: 6/11/03 at 4:05pm

LOL! LOL! Ya gotta admit..it had a ring to it...LOL!!!

That line could have been used on anyone...

sorry for Bernie that she was in the line of fire!!(LOL)

next year or month or day, it will be someone else...(LOL)

Maybe I'll say "monkeys" as opposed to "bats"...

LOL!!!!!!!

[TheaterBaby]

Posted: 6/12/03 at 12:15am

LOL That just reminded me of "Bruce Almighty" when Bruce makes a monkey come out of someone's ass. LOL not a very good movie, but that part was funny.

Good God man, it's Bernadette Peters! You coulda at least said Butterflies. LOL Get it, BUTT-er-flies? I'm tired and bored. She's still my favorite Broadway actress and singer...please don't kill me. I didn't take the bat comment seriously, which is why I found it very funny.

Updated On: 6/12/03 at 12:15 AM

[Victoria Grant]

Posted: 6/12/03 at 1:43am

I really do admire Bernadette Peters however I am having a really hard time believing her as Mama Rose. I feel that this maybe a challenging part for her. She has been really sick and maybe has not recovered from the infection she had. I felt that her performance at the Tonys was not her best. On the otherhand I felt everybody was off it seemed that everyone was rushing different tempo changes. Well maybe things will get better for Our Mama Rose.



"All That Jazz"