lyrics or poetry

[iamemma]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 7:42pm

lots of broadway song are poetry as well as songs. ofcourse the music is amazing but do you prefer it as poetry. some people will read this and be like wtf? definetly music... but think about it ... people will also think that its not true but dont tell me this isnt poetry.

"Without you, the ground thaws, the rain falls, the grass grows. Without you, the seeds root, the flowers bloom, the
children play. The stars gleam, the poets dream, the
eagles fly, without you. The earth turns, the sun burns, but I die, without you. Without you, the stars roar the breeze
warms, the girl smiles, the cloud moves. Without you, the tides change, the boys run, the oceans crash. The crowds roar,
the
days soar, the babies cry, without you. The moon glows, the river flows, but I die, without you."
(rent without you)

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 7:43pm

All of "Cats"

[greenegirl87]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 7:43pm

for songs like without you, i think the lyrics do "work" as poetry, but the music makes them. IMO.

[steveshack]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 9:48pm

The irony is that most poets make terrible lyricists. I used to run songwriting workshops in Los Angeles and if someone came in who was a poet, it was always depressing for them because poetry is complete in and of itself. A great lyric rarely can be read like poetry because it's only half the picture.

In poetry, you read it at your own pace, ponder it, think about it. But lyrics, as Sondheim once famously said, are hooked onto a train (the music) and they fly by. They need to be understood immediately in order to be effective. If the listener is pondering verse one because it was unclear, they'll miss verse two because their mind is elsewhere.

Also, music adds emotional content and/or context.

Most of the poets in my classes kept asking, "You mean I have to dumb it down?" They couldn't grasp the concept that "clarity" is not "dumbing down." Lyric writing is as much craft as art. If a lyric doesn't need the music, then it's not a lyric. It's a poem.

Steve Schalchlin
Composer/Lyricist
The Last Session
The Big Voice: God or Merman?
Winner Best Musical 2005 Ovation Awards

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 11:21pm

I would hardly call "Without You" a great poem. On a page, it looks like something a 12 year-old would write. It's not exactly Yeats.

[nomdeplume]

Posted: 11/22/05 at 11:56pm

This is a huge topic...

I agree with a lot of what you said, steveshack, but I think it is not true that "most poets make terrible lyricists". I think the writing of song lyrics is a skill that can and must be learned. And as for the poets, those that would have a natural feel and inclination for music, had studied voice and dance, would likely make the best lyricists. A poet who just writes free verse without meter could well fall into your terrible category.

Lyrics can be poetic, but they are not poetry, unless they were a poem first and then set to music. A recent e.e.cummimgs musical worked rather well, and though this is generally a recipe for a boring disaster, ee.cummings possessed a great sense of meter and rhythm in his work.

When you are writing lyrics for music that is already written, you have to accommodate the verse to suit the beats and stresses inherent in the music and that means a lot of shuffling, finding words with syllables that will fit and will convey the meaning and will be fairly easy for singers to sing, having open vowels particularly for high notes. (You wonder why they keep those operas in Italian?)

Great topic for the Board, please keep it going...
Updated On: 11/23/05 at 11:56 PM

[IssaMe]

Posted: 11/24/05 at 9:25am

The recent development project "Dust and Dreams" at the York was an interesting use of Carl Sandburg poetry combined with lyrics -it was seemless and worked well...with a terrific cast.