what is the definition of a flop (n/m)

[Yankeefan007]

what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#0

Posted: 11/7/04 at 9:18am

[Rathnait62]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#1

Posted: 11/7/04 at 9:20am

A show that doesn't recoup (make enough money to pay off the initial opening and running costs).

Have I ever shown you my Shattered Dreams box? It's in my Disappointment Closet. - Marge Simpson

[Mary_Ethel]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#2

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:23pm

I would also like to add to Rath's post that there are "Artistic Flops" that DO make money but are felt by Theater Critics and Historians NOT to be very worthwhile productions.

This, of course, is more of individual opinion's, rather than just straight dollars and sense--

but some shows that have been considered to be "Artistic Flops" include:

NO, NO, NANETTE--(reviving a show from the 1920s didn't move the musical theater forward);

MAME--(a star vehicle with a derative score);

COMPANY--(very abrasive work that hit a little "too close to home" for many theatergoers).


PLEASE KEEP IN MIND THAT THESE ARE JUST SOME OPINIONS BY THEATER CRITICS AND HISTORIANS. EVEN THE BEST SHOWS HAVE THEIR DETRACTORS.

I am stating these examples as opinions of others, NOT OF MY OWN.

"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."

[broadwaystar2b]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#3

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:32pm

Throughly Modern Millie, although it was the hit of its season and ran for about 2 years, was technically a flop because it never recouped its investment.

[Plum]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#4

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:45pm

There's 2 definitions-

The strict definition is any show that didn't make back its original investment. That's the easiest definition to use, because it's based on numbers and definite facts.

The second definition is a lot more subjective- the "flop" that people didn't like or go to. Was Taboo such a flop? Its fan base would say otherwise, but plenty of people really thought that show was a mess. So I prefer to stick with the first definition, if only because I like to be clear when I'm writing.

[JakeB]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#5

Posted: 11/7/04 at 12:56pm

I don't think that recouping defines a flop or hit, it's just far too expensive to stage a musical on Broadway. It's longetivity of the run that does it for me, but reviews, critical opinion and awards are the other key factors.

[Plum]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#6

Posted: 11/7/04 at 1:01pm

The recouping definition is the "real" one- I'm pretty sure it's used by Variety. It's kind of harsh, especially considering that most shows fall under it, but at least when you use it people know exactly what you mean.

[Mary_Ethel]

re: what is the definition of a flop (n/m)#7

Posted: 11/7/04 at 2:08pm

Plum is correct. VARIETY still classifies productions as being a "hit" or "flop" using SOLELY financial statistics.

What's interesting is that if a show closses on Broadway on the "debit" side--VARIETY will classify it as a "flop"--but if the show makes enough money through touring companies and foreign companies to recoup its initial investment, VARIETY will re-classify it as a hit.

WHAT MAKES SAMMY RUN? (1964) [with Steve Lawrence] is one example of a show being "re-classified."

"I say YOU'RE the CUTEST one. No, I say YOU'RE the CUTEST One. And we go on like that from dawn to three."